Lived Experience Forum

[Historylover]

@chibam - you're always on pin-point accuracy. 

At one of my most recent attempts at social interaction, I had early decided not to divulge anything about myself - just release it bit by bit, as it felt safe. But no matter how  I try to maintain my privacy - it's impossible. I don't judge others, and I make the mistake of thinking they will  show me the same courtesy. It simply doesn't work that way. It does for them but not for me. It's like they are just waiting for me to give them new, more exciting fodder with which to ingratiate themselves to others of their kind. Did you know...? Have you heard... So is gossiping an essential part to fitting in with people? It seems to me it must be. But then I'd get "She said this about you...- whether I had or not. I just can't win.

Then, for me as a woman, there is the dilemma of - do I dress down to fit in or dress up to give myself a very rare treat? 

And then there is the matter of opinions. I find it safer to keep mine to myself rather that rock the boat - but that just causes others' opinions to take precedence and me to be relegated to 'follower'. Simply tagging along. My family life was like that too.

I'm with you regarding the more I try to work things out the more confused I become.

All is well on the quake-front! Take care.

[Appleblossom]

Hey @chibam 

I really love the questions you ask and the way you describe social things too.  

@Historylover 

Yeah the gossip issue and the holding court and dominance issues need negotiation.

Hearing you about the dressing up and dressing down.  I have been bullied often for both 'not bothering to make' an effort and 'making too much effort' ... eye roll ... 

However this week I got 2 nice comments about my appearance, almost the first in my life!  One was about me walking down the street doing my guerilla gardening, with a bag of water bottles for the plants, a new friend stopped by on a motor bike and I did not recognise him immediately, and called last night and said that.

The other was with a "friend" of about 13 years who had been very upset about being friend zoned.  I called him as a mutual friend from choir where we met is going into serious decline and probably will die soon.  He told me I looked beautiful when angry.  So wow maybe there is hope for some of us as we age.

Yesterday I actually felt connected to a lot of people for the first time in ages.  It was a sunny day and I was out in my court garden a bit and chatted to 3 different neighbours, making one new friend maybe, fingers crossed, and good chat to 2 visiting tradies.  My gardening has gotten more positive attention that anything else I have done in my life, and then 2 chats out in guerilla garden.  My god that is very very rare for me!  Something in the 'mood of the times' is making some people wanting to connect more deeply with passers by.

I do hope something natural and organic like that happens to both of you in some way, some day.  

Sometimes people established in local community occupying social dominance positions can be very damaging, whether they realise it or not.

Take Care Guys.

[tinyorca]

This thread has gotten quite long and there is so much here. I am new here and it just struck me. I have only just been diagnosed and am waiting my first therapy session. I went to a therapist about 2 years ago for my marriage and it was awful. In the final session, I was in tears and she just pushed and pushed to make me cry more or so I thought. I ran out of the office with everyone just staring at me - nobody asking if I was okay and that was in an office full of so called experts.

You know what though, thinking about that and reading this thread makes me realise even more what I believe to be the core problem. People! Too many people are so caught up in themselves they don't really think about others. I believe depression, anxiety and stress could be lessened if people cared about others more. Nobody asked if I was ok that day but if just one person had I guarantee I would have felt loads better. I struggle to make friends because I don't trust people and I fail to find good people that care about others. Anxiety is only apparent around other people. Do people suffer anxiety when they are by themselves without any external pressures to be somewhere or do something? I know my anxiety only occurs when others are involved. So say those others are kind, understanding, non judgmental - would i feel anxious then?

Society has increased mental health issues. No therapist can change the people around you. Sure, they can help you react differently but it won't stop people gossiping, it won't stop people judging, it won't stop people talking about you to make themselves look and feel better. 

The only way the world will actually heal is if everyone starts caring. R U ok day is a load of crap. People write on social media R U ok? Making themselves think they care by saying that, yet they don't. Do you think if I wrote "no", anything would happen? Of course not because people don't really want to hear about other people's problems. If they do they they will quickly turn it around to be about themselves. Then it turns into a competition, " I'm more depressed than you". People don't care, I wish they did. 

[Historylover]

@tinyorca Welcome to the 'club', my friend. Many of us here are dealing with 'people' issues! Just sending best wishes to you.  

[chibam]

Hi @tinyorca .

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to notice your post. I normally don't come back to this thread unless I get a notification that there's been some activity in it.

If you've been reading this whole thread, then you probably won't be surprised to hear that I agree with - and sympathize with - so much of what you've said. So much of what manifests these days as "mental illness" is actually down to lack of true community - individuals' lack of people who they truly connect with and form a "team" with. This is especially apparent when they fall on tough times and have no kindred spirits to turn to for either moral or practical support.

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@tinyorca wrote:

Do people suffer anxiety when they are by themselves without any external pressures to be somewhere or do something? I know my anxiety only occurs when others are involved. So say those others are kind, understanding, non judgmental - would i feel anxious then?

---

Very relatable.

When I was starting out as a therapy patient, a lot of people tarred me with a sort of "agoraphobic" or "anxiety disorder" brush, because I hated having to endure the so-called 'friends' who had been exploiting and abusing me. And you get tarred with these labels so often that you even begin to believe it yourself; you start to think that there's "something wrong with me."

But the thing is, it was large gatherings - namely ones that I could depend on having new people I'd never met before - that I really used to look forward to. The only events I used to get tied up in knots over were the far more common events that contained only the small group of people I already knew well and didn't particularly care for.

That doesn't sound like agoraphobia to me. More like a completely normal aversion to abusive relationships.

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@tinyorca wrote:

The only way the world will actually heal is if everyone starts caring. R U ok day is a load of crap. People write on social media R U ok? Making themselves think they care by saying that, yet they don't. Do you think if I wrote "no", anything would happen? Of course not because people don't really want to hear about other people's problems. If they do they they will quickly turn it around to be about themselves. Then it turns into a competition, " I'm more depressed than you".

---

To be fair, the RUOK website (I actually plowed through it this year to see what their advocating) does advise people against talking about themselves/thier histories/their own problems when asking someone else: "R U OK?" So, it would seem, RUOK actually want to stamp out that issue of people turning the conversation around and making it about themselves.

But what continues to worry me is that they also instruct people: "don't try to fix the person's problems. Just listen to them." And this, to me is what is very problematic. That is why I see so much truth in this statement:

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@tinyorca wrote:

Do you think if I wrote "no", anything would happen? Of course not because people don't really want to hear about other people's problems.

---

Because if talking does not serve as a route to a real solution to the problem then, to me, it is just senseless chatter.

[chibam]

Hi @Historylover  How's it going?

I wanted to reply to your post in that #ShareYourOneThing thread yesterday, but I got too tied up to give it the response it deserved.

Something that I think causes untold confusion and distress in this realm is the fact that there are two very differant categories of people who have fallen under this umbrella of "mental illness", "mentally unhealthy", "in need of help"... call it what you will.

We are two (perhaps more!) very differant groups with very differant needs and very differant perceptions we wish to cultivate of ourselves within the public. And because we are torn on two very incompatable agendas, it causes untold problems trying to corral us all into a single identity.

On one hand, there are people like us, who aren't interested in "coping" with our currant miseries - we want to make our way into lives that are worthwhile; we desparately want solutions for our problems, and we know that, with adequate assistance/support, such solutions are quite feasable.

Then, on the other hand, there are those who've found their problems to be unsolvable and who believe it's actually harmful (i.e. in a "false hope"-sort of way) to focus on the idea of curing their misery. It's not a mindset I can wrap my head around, but they seem to be of a mind that "if I just stop dreaming of fixing my unfixable problem, then I can dedicate myself better to whatever meager, yet feasable, pleasures I can glean from my distraction rituals..." That's probably an unkind summary, but as far as I can tell, that's the jist of it. As I say, I don't get it myself, so I'm probably the worst person to try to explain it.

In any event, they seem to be of the mindset that they are better off, for giving up hope and ambition for solving their problems.

I don't have criticism for how others choose to live their lives. But what concerns me is when people make public statements, and there is the serious potential that the general public will percieve this attitude as applying to all of us who fall under the umbrella of "mentally ill", "suicidal", "distressed", "suffering", "troubled", ect.

In other words, somebody may make a statement that: "It's so liberating giving up on the idea of being cured", and having heard that, the general public may be prone to look at you and I and think: "Oh! Apparently, those 'mentally ill' people are incurable and don't like having people try to fix their problems! I better leave them alone then,  and avoid giving them any help!", which, as far as I'm concerned, is the exact opposite attitude to what we truly need.

I feel my stomach sink every time a read a statement like that; a statement about how healthy/liberating/ect. it is to give up on the hope of being "cured"; not because I object to other people freely speaking their own mind, but because I'm terrified that people will read those statements and think that they are somehow applicable to me.

How does all this tie in to your commentary on that #ShareYourOneThing thread? Because, frankly, I think that thread was set up for "the other team"; the ones who just need/want to continually "cope", as opposed to those of us who seek to escape our turmoil and get to a worthwhile standard of living. And because the boundaries of our all-encompassing "mentally ill"/"suicidal"/ect. family are so ill-defined, it can be hard to recognize that some areas of the dialogue are really only meant to apply to a certain subset of the community.

As I say, I wouldn't mind so much, except that a large portion of the community are prone to assume that a single viewpoint applies to everybody. Some people recokn they are well served by abandoning all hope of remedy; but I don't feel that way, and a lot of others don't. All I ask is that the wider world be mindful of that complicated truth, whenever it listens to "mental illness" commentary.

[Historylover]

As always, @chibam, so good to hear from you. I hope things are going well.

I'm plodding on with my course and it gets me through each day. It is the first time I have engaged in such a higher level of education - finding peer-reviewed articles with abstracts, summarizing, learning about referencing and plagiarism, a 2000- word essay linking 4 researched articles, etc. I find referencing and plagiarism worthy of a short course in themselves and I'm having to start from the beginning - with all aspects of the course. Talk about throwing myself in at the deep end! I have been in a state of 'information overload' for weeks!

Currently I am 3 weeks away from having to submit my second assignment. The first one was a cinch - just an 800 word, more personal essay. But this one is putting together all of the research on the 4 articles. It really is hard work and Assignment 3 will be more so - a 1500 word essay containing arguments with supported references from Assignment 2, and four more articles.  Anyway, you cannot imagine how good it feels to be extending  myself and learning in a whole different way. I just wish I could start my life all over again and go down this so-rewarding path. I wouldn't have dreamt I could have done such work in my earlier school years. It's nice to know otherwise.

Well, as for my post - yes, I was trying to shake those who think they should more or less accept things out of their torpor. Even if we can't change everything, there is still so much more they are capable of. Perhaps I should just leave others be, but it's so very difficult when you know that we are all sources of such untapped potential. And reaching it in increments is so rewarding.

I, too, hate when others put forward ideas on 'mental health,' on any form of media, which others may consider relevant to all sufferers. Even - or perhaps, especially, when psychiatrists give their 'expert' opinions. I just shake my head in disbelief and bewilderment that it is allowed to continue. It is leaving the field open for anyone to say anything - especially celebrities, whom so many others consider to be a reliable source of information. There is just so much misinformation being put about, and it is so broadly believed, because there is such a widely held perception that 'experts' really are. 

Anyway, I guess I'll get back into this assignment. This is the first time I haven't done all of my homework on any course. I am just so overloaded with new information that I simply cannot absorb any more, and have to only do the essential.

I hope all is well with you. Have a good day! 😎

[chibam]

Hi @Historylover 

You sound super busy, so I'll just wish you all the best with your assignments and leave it at that.

[Historylover]

@chibam , you had written me such a long post and I really didn't have much to reply with - so I rambled on about my study. I knew it would probably bore you senseless, but I had nothing else to respond with. It's all I have, @chibam. For now, it is sustaining me in life. That's it. I have nothing else.

But it does mean a lot to me - a great deal, in fact. Unless you have walked the same path, you cannot imagine how good it feels to know that it was not me who was not very good at secondary school education, but my teachers who failed me miserably. To find that I have academic ability is one of my greatest joys. 

I guess I just want others to realize that they have untapped potential also. And that goes for you, too. I just wish you could find the outlet for your amazing ability, your amazing mind, your amazing personality. It saddens me to see it unrealized.

Anyway, I just wanted to apologize for the boring post. Our connection means a great deal to me. 

Have a good day.😊

[chibam]

@HistoryloverYour post didn't bore me. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I just kept my response very brief because I got the impression that you were heavily tied-up in your studies and didn't have time to chew through a lengthy response.

Hope you are well.