Lived Experience Forum

[Former-Member]

Hi Dec, lots going on in my real life atm, but thinking of you 🙂

[Owlunar]

You're right @Zoe7 - what people don't say says a lot and often more than what they do say - and when I was doing market research I learned to do something then called "probing" which felt subversive - but part of the job - it's a way of getting people to say more of what's on their mind, more about their opinions - I find I still use it when I am listening to other people - sometimes it just means saying nothing for a moment and the other person uses that space to fill the silence and says something that might be very important

Sometimes it's just repeating the last couple of words they said - eg "... on toast"

My fourth therapist did not like it if I did not answer her quickly - and I pulled it up on her - I was thinking about my answer - she said she knew that but she didn't - she was rushing me to answer and I put the brakes on - what I learned interviewing people about jam or chocolate or something about a political party - whatever was on the questionaire - I gave people time to answer

The result - a more informed answer - 

Listening - I learned to do that in several parts of my life - with the Systematic Training for Effective Parenting, Tough Love, leading seminars at University, when I studied Learning Theory at TAFE and now in my day to day life - giving people time to answer is a real gift and there is so much to be gained in a few moments of silence

And there are people in a real hurry to fill the silence - wonderful silence - something I have learned to live with and love

When I submitted my paper on Learning Theory I made the point that everyone learns something in the classroom - some take up the curriculum, to different degrees too - some reach beyond the curriculum. Others totally ignore what is said out loud but learned to fill the vacuum of their classroom experience with whatever they find more interesting. TAFE loved what I wrote - 

I was learning more than what was taught - I started being bored stuff in Preps and Grade One hoping that one day they would teach me something I didn't already know and in Grade 2 I did. 

I really can rattle on at times - what was the question? What WAS the question?

Ah yes - what is not said can be really important  this is something I really believe in.

When I slowly made my way for university I was working through a change in what subjects were presented - I got the chance to study some more forward-thinking subjects like science fiction and satire - but mostly I was presented with a choice of classical subjects - Social Research sounds really interesting - I have friends whose kids are taking unusual degrees - I hope they are not too far away from the stem subjects to get a job but we need anecdotal subjects in the classroom too - anthropology is one thing I am really interested in - along with classical civilation

It's too late in my life time to do another degree but that doesn't stop me from searching and researching - how wonderful the internet is - truly

Dec

[Zoe7]

Often we are too quick to fill those silences with ouor own words @Owlunar - sometimes also it needs a rephrasing of what we have said for clarification if those silences are because the person does not fully understand the question or statement. It then becomes very important to be able to read people to know of the silence is them thinking before responding or if it is miscommunication that needs to be clarified.

[Owlunar]

Mm - yes @Zoe7

I had think about that -  I felt my last therapist was pushing too hard to get me to respond in areas where I wanted to maintain my privacy and considering the last letter she wrote to my doctor she was wide of the mark and her comments could have been used against me had I been in the process of seeking employment and my privacy had been invaded

After the last two sessions I had with this therapist I felt harrassed and wondered whether I would go ahead with her when my medicare rebate had ceased - why did I need to pay  someone to rip me open like that? I didn't and I don't

But then there are people who don't understand the question and the therapist does need to open the discussion further - you are right - check if the person has understood the question and is about to respond - 

We need to have cognitive insight and maybe this therapist didn't realise how much therapy I had in the past and how wide and deeply I have read so it does raise many interesting questions

Other therapists have respected me and my experiences more than this woman - it remains true that I learned a lot through the interactions I had there but I had a feeling at the time that I was a lot stronger than her - it seemed to me she was a bit fragile herself and thinking back now - yes - my story is huge and I feel too much for some people 

That's okay but for a therapist this isn't the best point to be picking around in someone's past

I was okay after the interviews but the way she interupted my thought process and then what she wrote to my doctor - it was unnecessarily intrusive - I did learn a lot about myself though - and about her

Even though I have a referal to another therapist I am not doing anything about following up - there are times when enough is enough - I have said this before - I can't change the past - only accept it - I feel my mother paid a lot for how she treated me and I can leave her in the past too

Therapy is meant to be helpful and she definitely wasn't

Dec

[Zoe7]

Totally agree @Owlunar ...therapy is meant to be helpful and when it starts crossing over theline and we feel worse than when we went in it is nt always helpful. Some therapists, just like all professions, cannot read a situation well either and that is detrimental to the client. I was very lucky when I saw my psychologist that not only was she very experienced but she could also read the situation - my pdoc is the same now - but that relationship with my psychologist had to end for my well-being also - I was not in a place to undertake that form of therapy and it was making me feel worse. The decision was an easy one to make - basically my GP and pdoc made it for me anyway as we were still working on the medication and I was in a very dark place ...and re-visiting past trauma was adding fuel to an already large fire.

In a different situation and under different circumstances I would go back to that psychologist again - she was extremely caring and knowledgeable and I did feel comfortable with her - it was just the circumstances of where I was at that I had to stop seeing her. I was however lucky again that the pdoc I see is not just about 'giving out' meds but also knowing where I am at and she can also help ground me when I am having a hard session with her or have had a difficult week. I see her weekly which I think also helps - there is that continuity as well as a check-in to keep me on track.

[Owlunar]

Hi again @Zoe7

That's good - your pdoc does more than just write out medication but "reads" the situation and you have a good GP and you can go back to your therapist when the situation is more opportune - I like the sound of that programme

When I read back over my post I wrote that I learned a lot from my previous therapist - I learned about myself and I learned about her - I wonder if this one was aware that I was in the process of reading her at the same time - maybe one reason I took my time to answer her questions

I wasn't going to say certain things - I think I said too much anyway - but the bottom line is - "What can a therapist do if the client breaks up at the end of the session?" 

Really what can they do? I did ask myself the question at the time but with a few months extra time I recollect that I used to interupt when I felt the session was coming to an end and tell her I had a need to ground myself - she respected this and complied but why did I have to say this - surely a therapist needs to be aware of the state of teariness a client has

Short story over - on yes - how abrupt to just end the session! An hour of a TV programme we are aware of the music and the circumstances letting us know that the plot with disentangle - at university the lecturer would start to end the hour with question time - as we get older we learned to sense the passage of an hour but then - up to our brimming eyeballs with gut-wrenching exposure of our inner life we might avoid being chopped off mis-revelation - sigh

I don't think I want to go back to that again - perhaps I will become fragile the next time someone in my family died - there's a bunch of old people in my family 

And as you say - there is no need to add fuel to an already large traumatic fire

But life is a learning curve - I am learning just revisiting this part of my life - earlier this year - sure - we can have 20/20 insight into our past - perhaps one idea I have gained it to apply the 20/20 insight I might gain about my past can be applied to my future

There is something really powerful is living longer

Dec

[Zoe7]

My psychologist was pretty good at knowing when to stop and when to try to bring me back to the present - there were also mutiple visits in a week and the ocassional phone call when I was at my worst. I must say that between my psych, GP and pdoc I was pretty well looked after - and not to forget how much being on here has helped me - without all those people I certainly would not still be alive @Owlunar 

I do agree with you though that with age does bring wisdom and with practice we learn new skills to cope. I know that it has taken a long time trialing and changing meds for me too to be able to get to the place I am now - and I am not saying that I am safe yet but safer than I once was - it would not take much for me to fall backwards again but I think being cognizant of that is strength and foresight in itself.

[Owlunar]

Hi again @Zoe7

You have had a good team and obviously this has been a real life-saver for you - I believe things in your life have been darker than I can imagine - my life was only at risk for a short time around the time my son died and it was an incredibly dark time for me

And I had a good psychiatrist - I was actually in anaysis at the time - I am not sure if people go into analysis now - it was popular at the time and a huge commitment for patient and doctor - 3 sessions of an hour every week - to this day I wonder what really went on in the sessions - I would talk and talk and I think the idea was for me to get where I was going on my own with a few questions from the psychatrist to clarify what I had said - it was exhausting

This doctor had a lot of insight into my life - it was chaotic - and terriblle - I really don't like to go there at all now - just tough on the outside of the situation - but I hear you - we all need a good team and we owe our lives to people who really listen and understand

This doctor would admit me to hospital with no notice and often - and one of the nurses told me that he would find a bed for me when there wasn't a bed free - so he really did have my best interests at heart - I think I owe him a lot.

He would sedate me in hospital but the rest of the time I didn't have much medication other than sleeping tablets - after he retired I learned where he lived and wrote to him and told him that (at the time) I wasn't taking any medication at all and I had left the terrible time of my life behind

It seems that in the last few months I have said more about the worst years of my life - it's not easy - 

But I might owe that doctor more than I realise - one thing about him - he was there for me and arrange a good replacement when he went on holidays - it was vitally important for me

Dec

[Zoe7]

It really seems like you had one of the good ones too @Owlunar and much like me you can see how much he did for you to get you through. My pdoc was talking to me about how far I had come just the other day and my comment to her was 'and without hospital'. She knew that even speaking about hospital was a trigger for me and she did everything within her power to treat me without that being an option. It did take some extraordinary efforts out of hours by her and my GP though - lots of extra phone calls and text messages particularly by my GP to keep checking on me and me seeing her almost daily. The great think was that they were in constant contact also so they both knew exactly where I was placed to be able to help me - I do wish everyone had the same support as I had (have). Then there were those on here - including yourself - who rode the waves with me and helped me get through when I couldn't see a way out myself - that support was just as invaluable as the support I had IRL. 

[Owlunar]

Riding the waves with each other @Zoe7 - perhaps soul-surfing - takes a lot of experience - it has been an honour - a privilege

It would take a lot of empathy - you have been there for me too - and it is taking me a long time to open up - and not because I lack trust but rather I got stuck with a stiff-upper lip early in life - WASPy stuff

I understand  both of us have been lucky with those who have been parts of our teams - and these people have been really committed to us and done everything they could - and for you this time - without hospital - well done

I really do not like hospitals now - no desire to go into one at all - for physically or age or emotional reasons - but back in the day I had to get away from my situation and I would be stressed out in a huge way but I never stayed long and it always helped - and I guess if it helps then it is given if possible

Also - we need to help ourselves - it strikes me that most people here really do work hard at it - you certainly do - I have - and I find it encouraging to know this - 

Your feedback is wonderful - thanks so much

I think your weather is as mine is today - bands of storms blowing across with heavy rain and strong wind - not at all encouraging to go out

Now I know Companion Cat will not go to the beach with me so I love it that Toby goes with you - but today - forget about the beach - the wind would blow salty water all over my glasses and what can I see then

But surfing - riding out those waves - I am glad to do that whenever possible - I have been through the chiaroscuro of life and know about it - and having done so really do get it with people going through it now

I am glad I have been able to be here for you

Dec