Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Determined]

Managed to find the post I lost last night...  it did autosave thankfully..  thanks @NikNik for the tip 😉

Some more thoughts from (Schreiber 2004) re dealing with 'borderlines' that in some way relate to me.  These are things that I relate to and are helping me to form some direction regarding implementing the new boundaries, basically gives me some confidence that I am not  being mean but helping my darling and our family have a better life.

Schreiber states...

"there is one inalienable truth you'll have to accept before proceeding: It is You who must be willing/able to change (not your Borderline) ... ... ... This task falls to you, because it's simpler for you to learn tools and strategies to navigate this course, than for your BPD partner to acquire enough emotional development to alter this painful, chaotic dynamic you share"

"This isn't some magical fix, so the two of you can sail happily off into the sunset together ...  ... ... It's a way to reduce some of the turmoil, drama and stress you've experienced..."

"First and foremost, you must understand that passivity is unhelpful   in any relationship with a Borderline"   "Quite simply, they need firm limits and boundaries set for them ... ... ... In short, you must gain control over your BPD relationship! To continue believing that you don't, just invites and promotes more chaos" 

This next bit definitely applies to me...

"Nearly every male who's seeking help to navigate these relational dynamics, thinks that passivity is the antidote for their BPD partner's volatility. The kinder or nicer they are, the more their Borderline accuses them of neglect or selfishness, and rejects them"

Since coming home from hospital my darling has constantly accused me of being selfish and not caring about her  (aparently all I care about is myself) and even tonight 'blaming her for everything' In the last 1/2 hour reverted  to the usual 'we may as well go our separate ways' or 'I may as well end things'   if that talk keeps up I will be reminding her about my commitment to call an ambulance if I feel she is in danger of self harm. 

 Which makes the next bit from Schreiber relevant...

"You cannot control day to day or week to week whether a Borderline loves you or hates you (that's about their life-long inner pain and turmoil, which has nothing whatsoever to do with You!)...  (at the moment it seems she hates me 😔) 

"but you absolutely must command their respect--it's the only way to teach them suitable behavior. None of this has to do with physical violence or volatility of any kind, mind you. Being assertive does not mean being abusive" 

 At the moment I am doing my best to disengage and ignore any  negative communications especially when the children are around. I am refusing to argue any more if they are anywhere in hearing. That part is working so far.  

[Determined]

I hope that all makes sense,

I tried putting the quotes into dot points but didn't want to change the context of what what was being said. 

Also I want to point out that these are things that are relevant to me/ my family and don't mean any offense to anyone reading. It has taken me a long time to accept some of these things so understand some may not agree.  My intention is to share things relevant to me and my family  so that this may assist others in similar situations.  Hope it helps. 

[soul]

@Determined, that's a really interesting point that Schreiber makes about how it's easier for the non BPD person to change. Not that the BPD shouldn't be making any effort but to maintain any sort of healthy relationship, I see that the non BPD Is better placed to be able to do so. 

I especially found the subject about nonpassivity to be intriguing. With regards to boundary setting, I suppose it's a matter of striking a balance between being seen as settting guidelines that are beneficial for the both of you rather than bossing your Darling around. The latter would not go down well and may even produce a backlash. 

So is the author saying that if you maintain a passive stance, you aren't doing yourself or your partner any favours? I guess it comes down to what you deem being passive is. Does it mean that you are calm and non reactive or is it that you agree with everything your BPD partner says and back down when challenged?

It does take two to argue so I would have thought a passive demeanour would be preferable in that situation. Maybe your Darling is attempting to provoke you (I think you alluded to this the other day) Why? Who knows? 

Good luck with walking that tightrope.

[Determined]

@soul

I interpreted being passive as not having any boundaries or any expectations of respect.  ie giving in to what ever my darling demands in order to avoid conflict.  

 This assumption is however based on my relationship and how I have dealt with conflict.   The alternative is the implementation of firm boundaries around 'acceptable behaviour' as you would with a young child. (I struggle with the child analogy but in the right context can accept it). 

I think rather than bossing my darling around or telling her what to do my response needs to be simply ignore unacceptable behaviour. (We have already had the discussion around what is and isn't acceptable I don't plan on going over it again and again)  does that make sense? 

For example last night when we had a melt down and spoiling for a fight (she had something hurtful to say about me /something I had done and I basically responded what do you expect because of x) which resulted in an angry tirade about how selfish and nasty I was....  my response was simply I'm not talking about this now, leave me alone until you can talk without yelling and swearing at me. What you said to me before was hurtful and my response was perfectly reasonable. 

She actually apologised after an hour or more of ignoring me.  Previously I would have tried to reason with her and finished up backing down and apologising when I had done nothing wrong .   Things did not escalate as much as they may have based on past experience.  

Sad to say but some of this process is a little easier as I have reached a point where I just dont care any more. Completly over the emotional abuse. That  s not saying I dont care about my darling, i do and I remain 100% committed to supporting her, i just dont have the energy to go on apeasing her at the expense of my own health (or the childrens) 

Having her tell me I was selfish and all a I cared about was my stupid university studies when she came home from hospital was a turning point for me . It demonstrated a complate of care or insight or both as to how much supporting her was actualy costing me and my health.   No regrets for anything I did for her during that time but to have it thrown back in my face realy cut ... a lot...  If she ever goes back for another stay I will be visiting on weekends only, 

[Determined]

My  old approach ..  working on fixing this 

[soul]

I can see that instigating these boundaries is as much for your own benefit as it is for your Darling's. Glad that you have had some success so far. The allowances you made in an attempt to keep the peace haven't done you any favours in the past and probably been the cause of some resentment. Perfectly understandable.

It's reasonable for you to only want to discuss things when the both of you are calm and respectful to each other. Getting that apology must have come as quite a surprise.

A lot has been written about the "black and white thinking" that a BPD does. Perhaps your Darling saw the importance you placed on your uni work and thought that was then all you cared about? She couldn't see at that time that there were many demands on your attention, uni being one of the more pressing ones. 

By turning down your sensitivity to how she reacts, you are in turn protecting yourself from emotional harm. When you cannot influence her behaviour, you can at least change how you respond to it @Determined

[Faith-and-Hope]

Hi @Determined

While I was trying to work out what was "wrong" with WH and not finding any medical support for our situation, I went scouting symptomatic behaviour to try to work it out .... BPD came up on the radar ......

I bought a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" for family members learning to deal with BPD, spouses in particular.

When I found my psychologist and put it to him, he said WH doesn't have BPD, (his opinion based on my descriptions of life with mid-life-crisis WH) but to keep reading the book anyway because it would help provide me with coping strategies for whatever he does have, creating boundaries most specifically.

I hope that helps. WH may have BPD traits yet ..... dunno ...... we've still got a mystery package ......

💜

[Determined]

Thanks @Faith-and-Hope have ben told about that book. Got the ebook version at the start of this year  but it was too hard to read and have not got around to getting the hard copy. Was given s store credit where i got the ebook from so probably should use it. 

@soul, yes unfortunately I have recognised that I have built up a lot of resentment over time. It feels as though I have given up so much with very little in return. 😔One of the key things I have learned is that I need to modify my own behaviour and how I respond to things. A learning process for both of us. 

[Former-Member]

Hey @Determined,

Expressing resentment is important, caring for someone with MI is a lot of give.

I think it was on the loss of insight talks where Dr Amador said how people with MI desire relationships. Expression of emotions has been difficult for Mr Darcy and continues to be.

One thing I have found is that when I started verbalising my needs in a no nonsense way
Mr Darcy responded, using the feeling type words in the given link. I don't know if he understands the emotional upheaval that a spouse turned carer encounters. Wanting to have a loving relationship not only for me but for us, is something I see as important. Ensuring that Mr D felt that he was being considered and that he understands how I need to be considered took a lot of courage but I am glad I started the conversation.

There is a series on YouTube 'Laugh your way to a better marriage' by Mark Gungor This has nothing to do with MI but was helpful to me. https://youtu.be/ntk1Tl7dscI


https://www.caring.com/articles/7-deadly-emotions-of-caregiving

https://www.barendspsychology.com/living-with-someone-with-borderline-personality-disorder/

[Former-Member]

@Determined @soul @Faith-and-Hope

I think it is so important to be gentle with ourselves in relation to past events. In all our situations we did the best we could to cope with the resources we had. Confusing and difficult times.

Armed with knowledge and support we are stronger, but the hurts do sting, we are all human, but we have resources to help and hope that things can be better.

We cannot change the past but we can look to the future and better ways of managing our situations.

After being married over 30 years I found out just how bad things were when Mr D was younger. When he was young his mum was on the receiving end of alcohol fuelled DV, there were gambling problems too resulting in abject poverty. Things were a lot better when I met Mr D and nothing was ever said to me. Mr Darcy still cannot talk about it, one of his brothers told me when I finally started to look things up to see what I could find to help the docs. He is a textbook case for a personality subtype that involves emotional dysregulation and suicide attempts in adult children of alcoholics. I cringe about some of the things I said to MIL when I was young and naive. This is something I can never put right or apologise to her for as she passed away 20 years ago.

Darcy