Struggling to be

[Aonaran]

Heya @PeppiPatty ,

I'm no kind of lady!

In fact, I'm a bloke.  195cm, bearded, big-handed, deep-voiced, 100+ Kg (most of it fitness, too much of it not!)

So did I come across as female to you?

Actually, I'm not all that surprised.  Since we're talking books, I did read a fascinating book a while back called Brain Sex ("Sex" as in gender) by Anne Moir and David Jessel, about the differences in the way male and female brains are organised (particularly in reference to the structure of the corpus callosum, the pituitary and the hypothalamus, but also in how and where data is processed).  The premise is that the gender of the brain is not necessarily the same as the primary gender of the body that houses it, and the theory is that it is signally determined by the timing and quantity of floods of developmental hormones from the mother while the baby is in utero -- actually, co-inciding with a prominent theory about the development of sexual identity, though in both cases it admittedly doesn't tell the whole story.  Anyway, there's a test included in the book (indicative, not prescriptive), and my results came out as quite markedly female.

It shows up in lots of ways.  It's why I prefer Jung, Reich and Assagioli to Freud;  why I prefer the Moon to the Sun and night hours to day;  why I cheer for Neanderthals over Cro-Magnon (and am a huge fan of Stan Gooch's writings);  why I prefer theatre to film and perception to action.  I think it's also why I "smell wrong" to a lot of people, why I get brutalised often, and why I'm gay.

You are right about being ignorant. but, people with MI sometimes forget how to feel kind to others because of the overwhelming feeling of stress not just from other people but....feeling like they don't fit.

Yes, I think that's true.  But I also think the dialogue is almost always skewed in other people's response to MI people.  To borrow a comment from a documentary I recently watched that concerned people with MI, once you let people know about your diagnosis, it's almost impossibl to be seen as a person ever again.  In the terms of Transactional Analysis, The Others habitually adopt a Parent position and try to force us into the Child response.  In my experience, they get quite indignant if you don't allow yourself to be Parented, and often that includes their trying to make decisions and evaluations on our behalf.  It's the Dark Parent role that a lot of people assume, belittling and controlling the MI Child.  But they tend to forget two things:  firstly, that we need to feel present as real people, not just a demonstration of The Others' (ego-driven) Generosity and Tolerance;  and secondly, that we ourselves are also making allowances for their foibles and stumbles on the path.  I've encountered many people who behave as if they are totally without flaws when they forcibly assume the driver's seat in someone else's life, and seem to expect the person they're now "helping" to be contrite and completely "I-though-so-unworthy".

I had an utterly horrendous experience a few years back when my local Mental Health mob packed me off to a CBT course (without any say or consultation) that began with the leader actually saying "we're going to teach you techniques that, if you practise them very hard, will one day make you normal like me".  And it went downhill from there.  The only thing I found useful about the course was the experience of watching that sociopath in action, and the light-switching-on of realising how emblematic he was of so many people in the "helping" professions, who are either in denial or else totally non-cognizant of their own flaws, but actually get paid to flail around inflicting further damage on largely defenceless people who have come to them for aid and support.  The fact that it's institutionaly demanded of us that we assume the energetic position of the prostrate supplicant before the conversation can even commence is totally outrageous, and I would even say pathological.  To me, it's the canker in the fragrant rose of the helping industry.

Haha!  I'm all cranky-pants now! 😉

[Aonaran]

Heya @BatGuano ,

Sometimes the accessing of mental health services is like getting a loan from the bank.  To get the loan you have to prove you don't need it.

Ahh, I haven't experienced it quite that way.  Interesting.  I would agree with the part of getting a loan where you have to agree to operate completely on their terms, including allowing them to unilaterally change the conditions of the contract at any time, without notice.

In another thread about why GPs treat people with MI like naughty children, I've suggested the strategy of putting on a 'sane face' so that the doc might treat one like an adult. Its not fair.  Its lying to get what you want.

And sometimes it can seriously backfire.  I got summoned to an interview at Centrelink a while back, so I put on my best game-face, completely in the interest of coping, and made a conscious and very taxing effort to stay calm and upbeat and energised throughout the interview -- only to hear the woman interviewing me (who was a clerical person, not medical) announce as a final statement that she had decided I wasn't depressed, and so she would be recommending my benefits be cancelled.  Sure enough, two days later (why the flip are they so fast in these processes when they're so bloody slowat everything else?!) I got the "you're dead to us now" letter.  What, on the say-so of a clerical officer who'd spoken to me for maybe ten minutes?!!  (I got it back, but it was a massive battle that ate up everything I had left in the bank, both financial and energetic, and then some.  And at one point they played dirty pool by arguing that if I was capable of putting up a fight, then that proved I didn't need support.  Bahh!!!)

My GP is as useless as the proverbial bull's mammaries.  I'm desperate to find a replacement, but all the doctors in my area are in those turnstile medical centres, and only really allow one question per Medicare form.  Bloody absurd.

Hmmm.  I seem to have been born without nacre glands.  Bugger.

[Aonaran]

Heya @kenny66 ,

Thanks for your reply, buddy.  Yeah, it certainly rings true for me that there's often a link between MI and overt intelligence.  I really do think there's also a connection with the fact that we're pretty much forced to try to puzzle out our lives as well, and make sense of our existence.  I both envy and deplore the lack of curiosity about their own existence shown by the average person not gifted with either sexual or perceptual states outside the statistical norm.

I think being gay and having an MI occuring concurrently makes for a very special person. At least I hope to think so.

I hear you, man, and i think you're compeltely entitled to that perception.  I also happen to think it's true.  (What, me, biased?!!)

I live in a very gentle world touched by beautiful things without any malice from within. The only hurt in my world comes from other people. outside of my world.

Oh man, you're not just gifted, you're blessed!  I'm moving in that direction, but it's been co-incident with losing *all* the people I considered "friends".  Through a couple of major incidents of somewhat traumatic force, I came to see how they were "friends" to a me that I'd been acting out in an attempt to gain acceptance and inclusion, but that wasn't me at all.  And that in fact, these people weren't really "friends" of any kind.  It was demonstrated by the upheaval of negativity that erupted from them when I simply tried to shift who I was -- not how i treated them, but how I held myself to be -- they'd have none of it, and the emotional recriminations were quite gobsmacking.  (I've been helped a great deal in this by the audio lectures of Caroline Myss, in particular Energy Anatomy and Why People Don't Heal, and more deeply by the mythopoetic work of Michael Meade, Sam Keen and the awesome Robert Bly.

Matey, thanks so much for your post.  It's touched me quite deeply, and ... I'm going to contemplate it for a while.  I can feel it awakening in me the possibility of serenity, and that's something I've been thirsty for longer than i can say.

[PeppiPatty]

Dear Aonaran,

I am so sorry, your messages are interesting and now make a lot more sense. Unlike you, I read and read but don't really have the 'quick,' skills you seem to have of writing in a clear way what's it about.
I have not written to a person who can write clearly about....say Transactional Analysis. My ex husband, bless his cotton socks, someone I miss but he can speak similar to like you write.

Don't you get like...gotta walk alone than let people do that.....put yourself thinking.....'I'm so unworthy,' stance.


I used to prefer Freud but now....
Thanks for great messages

[Rick]

Y'know I've always said that to findd the smartest person in a group just look for the frootloop.

Least I think I said it. 

I know I have thought it.

I may have mumbled it on occasion.

Subvocalised maybe....................

hope endures

R

[kristin]

Hey @Aonaran 

I hope you are travelling ok at the moment.

I have been running hot & cold with the forum lately as I have been struggling with being bullied by a horrible business owner who did some work for my neighbour & I 6 months ago. He tried to charge us 3x as much as I was quoted, then dropped it to 2x when I complained. Every time I think it's sorted he ramps up the debt/collector lawyer abuse. I also find Xmas very triggering anyway, so it has fed into that big time. Last week I came very close to a flashback, but managed to clam myself down enough with help from my psych and a friend so I wasn't so flooded.

I'm wondering about the organisation you mentioned who offer telephone counselling and who were so unprofessional and abusive. Was it ASCA? 

Kindest regards,

Kristin

[NikNik]

Hi @kristin

@Aonaran didn't mention the name of the organisation due to our guidelines around defamation. This is territory we can't go into. I hope you understand.

Nik

[Aonaran]

Hiya @kristin ,

Travelling? [sad smile]  No, more like limping.

Had a bad crash (energetically speaking) and just haven't had the oomph to rise to meet anyone.  It's the Perversity of Small Horizons ... we draw our reach in so that we can at least feel the success of grasping somethnig, but even as our fingers close around the intentionally-small target it feels so trivial, disappointing and empty.

I managed to finish trimming my front hedge (a big task, no question -- ficus bushes grow so tall and thick, the moment they think you're not looking!), even mowing the nature strip, vaccuming up all the leaves in my open porch (mostly from the trees in the street, so not even mine) so that there was no assault station for the constant stream of huge glistening surfboard cockroaches sallying forth under my front door every nightfall, seeking their little cocky fortunes and grotty nooks under my desk where they can start their scuttling little families and occasionally claw their way up my bare legs.  I managed all that, then strung the little twinkling Christmas lights that variously prompted one neighbour, passing me as I put the bins out, to say, "Is this your place mate?  It's lovely!" and then a carful of teenage boys slowing down, as I thought to smile at the lights, to shout "P00fter!" and then screech off, guffawing at their act of humanity as it truly is.

I came inside and just collapsed, in exhaustion and significant pain, briefly happy with my efforts ... until I reflected on the fact that a mere couple of years ago all of that would have been one concerted afternoon of doing what was needed, not requiring several days of towering self-application nor a constant stream of self-affirmation.  And yet now it wearied my mind into a fog and wiped me out physically for a week.  Kristin, my life has become so mind-crushingly, soul-shreddingly Small.  That's the taste of bile and bitter gall that lies at the heart of my Depression, and the grief of it throws a dark, airless shadow that I struggle to emerge from.  I just haven't had the substance to come here to talk with anyone.

So sorry to hear about your wrangling with a tradesman (I've just been watching snippets of the Dowager Duchess Grantham on YouTube! :chortle: ).  Shocking, isn't it, to find yourself floundering in the waters of someone else's Stuff ?  But good on you for having your own Rescue Remedy in place.  I do hope the issues get resolved soon;  I know how tedious and teeth-gritting they can be.

Kristin, I didn't mention the name of the organisation I feel so savaged by, in anticipation of the reasons that @NikNik gave.  (Thanks, NikNik ! 😉 )  Although I admit, the word defamation never crossed my mind -- it's not defamation, is it, when you're telling the truth?  (Oh, maybe it is.  The phrase "Truth is no defence" comes to mind.)  Anyway, I was telling the truth, and as I said my first instinct was to name and shame, but I won't.  (Especially now NikNik has confirmed that it would be crossing a line. 🙂 )  I do find it pretty shocking that such organisations can behave however they wish, and there's nothing to hold them to account.  Even if I were to formally complain and name them, even provide a transcript of the conversation. all the other professional organisations would give them the "benefit of the doubt" for the sake of "professional courtesy" and of basically having to get along.  But how does that help the people these organisations are supposed to be there to be of value to?  If you were to suggest the name of such an organisation, I'd probably use one of my favourite quotes and say, "You might very well think that;  I couldn't possibly comment."

Ah, Christmas Eve.  Time to deck the Santas, methinks.

And now, the Dark Days start.  Bahh humbug !!

Có-dhiù ... Nollaig chridheil dhuibh uile.  Merry Christmas, every one.

[Aonaran]

Hiya @Alessandra1992 , and thanks for your likes.  🙂

How're you doing, yourself?  We haven't talked a lot, but your presence on these forums is welcome and warm to me.  I hope Christmas is a time of renewal for you, as it was originally devised to be.

All best wishes,

Aonaran.

[Alessandra1992]

Hey @Aonaran, I am sitting watching The Godfather.. And reading lots of posts, so much to read and digest!
Thanks for your kind words, I am trying to mindfully shut up, so I do lots of liking as there's so much wisdom, support and community on these forums 🙂
Reflective time for me this time of year but also a very social one too..I think its because so many friends are on holidays we can actually make time to meet up, which I love to do! Nothing beats face time realtime, real hugs 🙂
Hope you have a peaceful Christmas and time to be with your friends or family, me, I am opting for best friend tomorrow, family on Boxing Day 🙂