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25-10-2014 12:10 AM
25-10-2014 12:10 AM
Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
I was chatting to a very very good friend who owns her own business. She and I have been through heaps together and understand each other's mental state very well.
She was discussing a staff member that hadn't been working out, so they had "managed her out of the job" ie. encouraged and assisted her to get employment somewhere else. And then she added " and I was starting to we signs of mental illness as well" I laughed and said " well yes I am sure you can pick that up these days"
But now I have had time to think about it, it is pretty bad. She has employed someone else who turned out to be bipolar and he couldn't do his job as he was very depressed. I am bipolar so she came to me at the time to talk about it. They are a small business and can't afford to keep someone on who can't perform. She herself has and does suffer depression and panic attcks so she empathised with the guy but they couldn't afford for him to stay. He knew that and left of his own accord.
The thing is both of us have been able to push through and keep our jobs when we have been very sick, only because we have money and can take sick leave or get hospitalised and we both have enormous family support. So we are both awesome at keeping it hidden professionally.
It wasn't the reason they let the girl go (euphemism!) but she mentioned it at the end.
I can't stop thinking about it, we all talk about remove the stigma, and legally you can't discriminate against those with a medical condition, but mental illness is risky. You don't know when it might happen. It's not like being in a wheel chair - they can still do their jobs, it's not like breaking your Arm - that has a finite time frame for getting better. I thought if we the mentally ill won't even employ people with illness then how on earth can we expect others to?
No resolution, but in light of all the mental health stuff, and remove the stigma etc. it just left me feeling flat and hollow.
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25-10-2014 10:32 PM - edited 26-10-2014 05:15 PM
25-10-2014 10:32 PM - edited 26-10-2014 05:15 PM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
Hi Uggbootdiva,
Stigma can be so pervasive, and hard to pin point at times. Sometimes people are unaware of how their own actions may contribute to the stigmatistation of MI, even though they've experienced it themselves. Awareness is a great starting point to challenge stigma.
What strikes me about what you wrote is that it wasn't unitl after you had some time to reflect on your friend's actions that you started to feel uneasy about her behaviour. I say this not to suggest that you were unaware, but to highlight how great it is that you actually reflected on it, haven't accepted it, and that you're questioning it. This is a positive step in challenging stigma. Not only are you questioning it but you're also starting a conversation about it. It's actions like these that can help challenge perceptions and behaviours. It seems like your friend felt stuck with no other option but to let go of her worker. I wonder if she had another angle, or if she could have found another alternative if she would have kept that employee on. I know that you mentioned that among other issues, MI was not the reason for letting them go. However, I can hear your concerns that they saw that having a MI as problem.
Stigma won't go away over night, but hopefully with increased awareness, people can become more informed about how their behaviours impacts on people with MI.
@Ma60 @Violetsare @chemonro @kenny66 @Alessandra1992 , I understand that you have thoughts about work and discrimination.
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26-10-2014 06:46 AM
26-10-2014 06:46 AM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
I've lost jobs because of mental illness and experienced being "managed out" before. In my experience it's an accepted thing whatever the law says, and the risks of mounting a legal challenge (in terms of future employment) are significant.
Inmy view the economic and social environment are so cutthroat right now that anyone with any kind of "stain" that might affect their performance is lucky to even be considered for a job.
It's not just stigma, it's stigma interacting with hard economic tines: of you're a boss who do you let go first? Usually the woman, the queer, the black, the disabled, or the one who "doesn't fit in". Noting personal see? That's just the way things are...
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26-10-2014 08:28 AM
26-10-2014 08:28 AM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
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26-10-2014 03:25 PM - edited 26-10-2014 03:51 PM
26-10-2014 03:25 PM - edited 26-10-2014 03:51 PM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
Uggbootdiva, talk about being " between a rock and a hard spot". I actually had to spend a great deal of time thinking about what to say and what not to say. On the one I can understand your friends dilemma business wise but I am finding it had to understand a sufferer herself and yet she appears to dismiss , out of hand, the fact the she employed someone else, who was also had a MI. Maybe it is fate that she always gets another MI victim.
I must say I am a little bemused by your admission that you both " have money" also saying that you are both "awesome at keeping it hidden" , then you go on to say that you can take sick leave. As a long time MI victim I find your position untenable and a wee bit hypocritical, I am trying to tread softly, and then you admit that it is breaking the law by being discriminating. Your final line actually shows your true feelings and being a MI sufferer is bad enough but having that matter on my mind would actually push me over the edge. "Follow you conscience and wonder what you would feel like if that were done to you."
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26-10-2014 08:46 PM
26-10-2014 08:46 PM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
Thank you for treading gently it's a fairly awful topic.
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27-10-2014 12:59 PM
27-10-2014 12:59 PM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
Uggbootdiva, I am sorry but thats is the impression I get from your last paragraph. Also the reason MI is treated the way it is, is because not enough of us can/ wlling to talk about it and in turn EDUCATE the ignorant then maybe we would all get the same support that cancer, aids and other illnesses get in advertising and Government help.
Why should we " HIDE" something that is not self inflicted but a nature illness. I also must say that you are permitted to be picky I do believe in a democracy. In my case with PTSD I don't nor have I every hidden the fact instead I read a lot, found out most of the causes, so that, " being for armed" is very useful so you can explain to people just what it is that is different.
I may disagree with you but as the old saying goes, " I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." "Voltaire". And my sympathy is to you and all other sufferers of MI because no matter what it may be it is the biggest hurdle they will face in life. Believe me , sadly I know only too well.
Kind regards,
loopy.
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28-10-2014 01:19 AM
28-10-2014 01:19 AM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
I don't think it's hypocritical to hide one's MI - @kato mentioned that not everyone wants to share everything to everyone else. (I think?) So sometimes it's not hiding, so much as choosing not to share.
I'm not ashamed I'm bipolar, but I'm not proud of it. It's like diabetes or cancer, you just have it. and you can choose who you tell or not. And I need the choice, it drains me physically and mentally to show that vulnerabilty.
Different. situation for employment. - as the ethical nature of financial transactions comes into play.
I do hide it at work not from shame but from vulnerability.
In my original post I wasn't asking if it was fair to be managed out, it's def. NOT fair.
but what if your MI is affecting your performance? Is that fair to a small business? I don't know I don;t have one, I couldn't handle being responsible for so many people.
and to be honest I was so uncomfortable with what happened with my friends comment that I just wanted to share it. the employee was not let go for MI, we don't even know if she had one. but it was the throw away comment as if her MI sealed the deal... and my complete lack of awareness when it was said.
for that I do feel very hypocritical.
@Loopy - again, thanks for writing so respectfully. I hope I have also been able to do that.
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29-10-2014 09:48 AM
29-10-2014 09:48 AM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
Uggbootdiva, I am sure I did not say it was hypocritical "to hide your MI" i was sure it was to do with not employing someone with MI and being an MI sufferer youself. I would never say that someone is being a hypocrit for hiding their problem. It is theirs and no one elses. I always try to tread softly as when you are a sufferer you do not want someone shoving their ideas down your throat or demeaning their thoughts. In answer to your last comment, rest assured I would let you know if you overstepped but then again I really dont worry about things like that.
Kind regards
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29-10-2014 09:41 PM - edited 29-10-2014 09:43 PM
29-10-2014 09:41 PM - edited 29-10-2014 09:43 PM
Re: Being managed out or let go for mental illnesses
I am going to ask my law tutor about the employer obligation for someone with a pre existing illness/condition. You are not supposed to discriminate when choosing candidates, but is it discrimination to fire them if they are not performing what they are paid to do because of their illness whether cancer or MI.
I suspect not...
Re. My friend -the employee in question was not let to for having an MI, the bipolar guy left off his own accord, in fact they regularly catch up.
I feel the only hypocritical thing was the parting shot comment which perhaps reveals much!
And I always worry about overstepping, offending and churn conversations around and around over analysing them. I envy you!!