A long and self indulgent rave

[Mazarita]

Goodnight, @Faith-and-Hope. Wishing you the sweetest of dreams tonight. 

[Appleblossom]

Hi @Mazarita Just read your thread.  I second all the great supportive responses.

I can never spend regular time filling out forms and rating myself.  I only do it when I am trying to track it, for ME, so I understand myself or see how things have changed.  Not when I am told by a young woman (girl) to monitor things, pro forma...

I dont really think the daily shower is needed.   When going to gymn I only ever showered after and as I went all times of day .. I became very flexible .... I had the idea of only using what we truly genuinely need.

I know a lady who hasnt washed her hair for 5 years ..

It is cold in Melbourne and I went 3 days this week without a shower...   and didnt feel guilty ... in fact .. I had to visit someone who had given me the pip and boasts of being an urban softie .. and I was secretly pleased about it ... Nah gottcha .. silly me .. and  I wore my gardening shoes .. though I had a nice dress, leggings and jacket on ... in rebellion for feeling coerced about dress and all sorts of other "standards". Showered today though.

The daily shower robs our skin of its natural oils and IMO is just another excess .. when they developed plumbing we all went overboard with the thrill of being clean and the goodness of hygeine etc .. we are a water stressed country.  I rewear clothes as I dont want to waste washing water .. we also confuse being clean with smelling of product .. why should we waste money on scents .. I agree .. with Si's idea about musk ... natural // not purchased.

[Mazarita]

Hi @Appleblossom, thanks for your sensible response. I agree that a shower every two days is generally enough. And that we have as a society become obsessed with cleanliness and wasteful of water with the frequency most of us feel we must do it. I too rewear clothes if they are okay, which they usually are by my standards for at least two wears, depending on fabrics, state of cleanliness of me, physical exertion, season, whether I've been sweating a lot, or not. But at the moment the washing is outstanding and if that goes on for too long, this too makes it less likely I'll make it out the door. Still, I agree that perfectionist me really needs to take more of a back seat. Cheers again.

[Faith-and-Hope]

Go back 100 years or so, and it was probably the weekly bath ...... and depending where you lived and how much water you had to cart and heat in a copper over a wood fire for an hour, it was probably a shared bath at that, starting with the youngest in the household and working up ....

Yep, modern luxuries that have become somebody's idea of a "have to" .....

Like with eating and sleeping patterns, we have an awareness about what is healthy ❣

A nice hit shower is a great way to detox a bit emotionally ........ sometimes it's a good idea to think about why else we might like to do something, for our own reasons.

@Mazarita, I like how you have a consciousness about yourself, that if you let things like showering, washing clothes, etc slide for too long, it affects your motivation to socialise and change your environment fir a little while. We can all use some of that ....

If I can't motivate myself to deal with something in its big size, I deconstruct it a bit and work on a piece of it - ie, too much washing up ?  Okay - "deal with self" - wash up three cups, two spoons, and one side-plate.  Done !

Next ?

❤️

[Mazarita]

Good morning, @Faith-and-Hope. Again, wise words. I like how this thread is turning into a discussion about how much 'personal hygiene' we really need. Something that is definitely worth questioning. Thanks for your thoughts. Looking after small bits of what we can do at any given time is good advice if not able to meet the full task.

[Faith-and-Hope]

Morning @Mazarita 😊

Woke very early (west coast) and have been doing a bit of a catch-up, but I have a "deal with self" to roll over and doze for another hour now ....

See you a bit later, no doubt ❤️

[CannonSalt]

Hi @Mazarita ! I struggled with finding DBT infantilising and paternalistic as well - as well as having an emphasis on tough love that was unhelpful to me. Even though its origin is in someone with bipolar disorder (Marsha M. Linehan, the guru of DBT), it doesn't seem very helpful unless you're fully committed to the exact method.

The way my ex-therapist described the emphasis on self-care (even the things I felt I'd mastered at the age of 8...) was that if you get all of your self-care duckies in a row, everything becomes easier to deal with.

It seems like your therapist is not understanding how much of a struggle reducing your smoking is for you, that she's miscounting how many balls you've got juggling in the air right now.

Did you try telling her, could you try telling her, that having to quantify and metricize yourself (harder, better, faster, stronger... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjR4_CbPpQ ) makes you sad, focuses you on your 'weaknesses'? (And creates 'weaknesses' where you're doing mostly ok...) Would she see that as 'the bipolar talking'? Can you disagree with her productively? (As in, you both understand where you're coming from a bit better after, and maybe work towards a compromise? I guess that's what I mean by 'productively disagree'.) My experience of "DBT & my jerk of an ex-therapist" is that it's prescriptive, almost like there was no room for me in there - not sure how much of that is DBT's bootcamp nature and how much of that was the jerk.

Sorry to respond with 'me, me, me'. I don't think your concerns are self-indulgent - you've gotta be your own advocate. If that means knowing when to cut your losses and say 'no thanks', that's what you've gotta do. Have you had a word with your GP about your experiences with the homework sheet and the slumps?

[Mazarita]

Hi @CannonSalt,

Thanks for your perspective, very interesting to read. I think it's true that the psychologist may be not taking into account the difficulty of juggling things at my end. I have not yet had the opportunity to discuss this with her, but will do that in our next (and possiby last) session. From past sessions, I sense that objections I may have to particular aspects of the therapy may be seen as obstacles to be overcome by her rather than possibly valid matters to be negotiated. I have found a 'metric' quality to the way the sessions have gone so far. However, I may be quite mistaken in my impressions, so it will be interesting to discuss these things with her next time and gauge the outcome. I may not make a final decision on whether to continue with her beyond the next session until I am able to hear her responses to what I have to say.

By the way, your post raises another interesting matter for me. @Former-Member also mentioned it. That is, the use of 'me' and 'I' in our language. Somehow this has become taboo in some peoples' minds. I have no problem with 'me' and 'I' statements. In fact I find them much more helpful than supposedly 'objective' language. Using 'me' and 'I' says to me: 'this is just one person's perspective', rather than, 'this is the truth'. Personally I do not believe in objective truth. Most things seem to be relative in this world. But that may just lead us to a whole new philosophical discussion, which is probably not needed here. Be assured though that I find your personal perspectives and experiences very valuable to better undertanding. I also find this the best kind of peer to peer support we are able to offer each other on this forum.

Thanks again!

[CannonSalt]

@Mazarita - DBT therapists are trained to see signs of dissent as being "therapy-interfering behaviour" to be expunged. After my experience with jerkface, I did a bunch of reading about DBT - there was an older thread here: http://saneforums.org/t5/Our-experience-stories/Dbt/td-p/35817/highlight/true where I provided some links to DBT websites for therapists and DBT in the peer-reviewed literature.

I only managed to escape jerkface because my bestie, my father, and my GP all said I was getting worse, not better, and that I should quit. I would urge you to talk about your experiences with this therapist with your GP so that they can give you a better referral next time.

[Silenus]

Very important conversation, peeps...

Sometimes a therapy can make us worse rather than better...

And just to confuse things, sometimes that process is proper and appropriate... getting worse before you get better...

A classic example is if we are kicking a drug habit - we get worse before we get better (withdrawals, etc.)...

@CannonSalt - thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts... it has given me some very interesting things to explore in my own life journey...

@Mazarita - I use I and Me language lots, precisely for the reason you said... to me, the only thing I really feel qualified to talk about with any authority is my self, so I use self-centric and experiential language...

I avoid telling people what is wrong with them or what they must do. That would be rude, ignorant and dangerous of me. All I can do is to relate to others through my own experiences, and present those experiences in the hope that others can get something of worth out of it with relevance to their lives...

That's the sweet spot... 🙂

That fires the reward centres in my brain and makes me think "I dun a good thing, I dun a good thing."... hahaha...

Huge hugs to you all... 🙂