Expert Panel On Better Access (To Psychologists) Parliament House 30th Jan

[RachSANECEO]

Well that was the genesis of the org; I believe they’ve broadened their focus - I would say there’s a lot of movement and different groups representing different cohorts of consumers.

The challenge for the new national consumer peak will be how it is structured to get a good diversity of views to represent. In particular, culturally and linguistically diverse groups, LGBTIQ, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples- again there are some new and long standing advocacy groups and in my view hearing a diversity of views is essential.

[RachSANECEO]

Yes, id like to have an organised way of getting input from this community so when I go to government I can present what we are hearing. Some sort of ability to Poll on the forum as well as a sort of membership of advocates in and from these forums to work with might be a way to go?

[justanotherguy]

Just reading on from when I was tagged. Reading about the experience of @Willy may be like a lot of other people in the past, thankfully it is not so bad now. Thankfully a forum like this exists at all to try and catch people in distress before they get locked up. In my case, the mental health staff were more focused on not putting me in hospital than answering any of my concerns, basically like a veiled threat. The whole process seems too much like cloak-and-daggers and is designed to wear you out as I discovered. So now I feel fine, I'm out of the system, not delusional, not psychotic, and I have wasted years of my life dealing with a system that completely failed me. I don't want much to do with it, I don't consider myself an 'Erin Brokovich' type, especially when the cards are so stacked against me. The last time I complained, in detail, about my treatment, I was told to "get over it" and "get on with life". I can't help people with that kind of attitude, glad I learned now and not 10 or 20 years later. Sorry for those that still feel like pushing back, not sure what I can tell you.

[DogMan79]

This thread certainly took off in a way that I did not anticipate

I'm reading. I don't have a lot to contribute

I've been in the system 20 years across 2 states. And the system has changed a lot

I miss my first 3 psychiatrists who saw me every month or two and bulk billed. But I am a realist

[Jynx]

Hi @justanotherguy I'm really sorry to hear of your experiences in the system. I wish I could say you were alone in them, but alas that is not the case. I think it is truly awful that you were told to 'get over it' - that is gross negligence, highly stigmatising and disrespectful, as well as demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of how these experiences can impact us. 

The way I see it, the system was designed in such a way as to try to protect people from harming themselves or others - but in reality, rarely is a situation involving 'risk' so simple. As well as this, the current processes and facilities to care for people in crisis are not always the best way to help - though at the most base level, it does save lives and give people a second chance for recovery. The way the system works currently can mean two things - 

One, that folks trying to access support may feel the need to hide the severity of their circumstances to avoid 'getting locked up'. Also, the removal of a person's agency can have severe impacts that may only contribute to their suffering, rather than alleviating it. 

Two, that we as practitioners often feel like we might contribute to said suffering when we are obligated to report risk to emergency services, and must on occasion choose between fulfilling that obligation and potentially causing further pain to that person, or not acting and potentially losing our jobs at best, or having a death on our hands at worst, something we are all trying to prevent. 

Having said all of this, I want to implore to you and anyone reading along, that there are so many of us within the system who are always fighting for the best outcomes for some of the most vulnerable folks in our society, and will act with kindness and care to try to provide high quality support. There are also many of us who recognise these faults in the system, who are fighting and advocating all the time for better procedures and better facilities. The process is, unfortunately, slow. But those people who will act without judgement, who will promote safety, and who will do everything within their power to provide a caring space for folks - we exist in this system too, and I hope that you can find those of us who are a far better fit for your support needs, and who won't shut you down or make you feel like they only want to wear you down. 

[justanotherguy]

All I can say is when I was young and people started to have difficulty with life, they normally left for some remote or rural place, to get away from society and let their thoughts unwind. There were plenty of people who would rent a farmhouse, fly off to Darwin, drive around Australia, or live in a hut in the bush. I have known several. These sort of things let people process their thoughts in their own time, but now as soon as someone is 'becoming unwell', they are funneled into the system and some never come out. People were given time and space, when they thought they needed it, and mental health services were reserved for the most severe cases. This is just anecdotal on my part, perhaps I needed more help than I realised, but also I knew I just needed someone to talk to properly. I did see a couple of psychologists and therapists early on but I didn't trust them, I even began counseling one of them in my sessions because they were more disaffected than me! The mental health system, like most things, is an industry, and anything that pays good money is bound to attract some bad people. So while there may be good people in there, they seem hard to find for a lot of people.

[chibam]

Hi @Willy . I didn't have internet for most of yesterday; I've logged on today to find a mass of notifications I have to skim though, so I'll be brief here.

Thank you for your kind comments & reassurances about my efforts in this area. 🙂

I hadn't heard about that "Pink Panther" movement, although I believe I've encountered that "mad studies" organization that they seem to have an affiliation with.

I was sorry to read about your history with the mental health system. Although I've picked up hints of what it entailed in previous threads where we've converse. Sad to say, I've heard all too many similar tales from other former patients, over the years.

[Appleblossom]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-19/gold-coast-sudden-death-man-detained-by-restaurant-patrons/10... 

I have seen too many articles like this in last few years.

In some ways the "system" may have improved, but in some ways it has gotten worse.  It is extra worse when the premature and unnecessary death of a person is so airily dismissed.  Too bad about the family reading that article.  I think it is disgraceful.

Not happy Jan

There was no discussion of what kind of restraints the strong arm public applied (or how many) that resulted in death soon after their actions.   Seems article is about reassuring them rather than looking at facts or justice or responsible reporting.  How dare their meal be interrupted.

@Jynx 

I like your attempt at giving hope regarding the MH system, but given the this thread was still current, I felt it important to bring this up.  Thee is something about the way dilemnas about protocols you discussed as practitioner are escalating these events.

Is it my imagination?

Does anybody have stats?

@DogMan79 @RachSANECEO @justanotherguy @chibam @Willy @Historylover 

[Willy]

@Appleblossom,@DogMan79 @RachSANECEO @justanotherguy @chibam @Willy @Historylover @Jynx  @patchwork 

This is absolutely not Ok, and Superintendent Smith, whoever he is, should, in my opinion,  be strongly reprimanded and disciplined for making such an irresponsible public statement.
It looks to me from the ABC report, to be a case of group manslaughter.  Killing a person who is experiencing psychosis is still a very serious crime and from the news report there appears to be no evidence that anyone was in serious danger.    

This most unfortunate event flags many MH issues that I am sure  we are all only too aware of and troubled by.

I believe we should be advocating very loudly about this incident with formal letters of complaint and disgust to

1. The Queensland Minister for Health
2. The QLD police commissioner,
3. The ABC

If possible it would also be good to send a letter of condolence with an expression of deep regret and outrage to the family of the deceased man.

I would tackle this myself if I had the time but at the moment I am absolutely up to my neck with other MH advocacy work and simply can't take on anything more. 

If someone else has the time and inclination and wishes to have a go at it I am happy to share my views with them as to how to go about it. Basically it requires a little bit of work contacting people, probably starting with the ABC reporter and then draughting three/four letters which need to be checked and then sent from the SANE community or one of the other advocacy organisations that I/we are in contact with.

Regards

a rather upset Willy 

PS In what way has the system improved? In my 50+ years of dealing with it it seems to have become decidedly worse.

[RachSANECEO]

What a terribly sad story. and I agree - the discussion in that article is does read pretty dismissively. I've passed it on to the SANE StigmaWatch team.