Lived Experience Forum

[Little_Leopard]

I am feeling scared as some big announcements have been made this weekend about changes to the NDIS. Apparently they want people with with psychosocial disabilities to receive recovery support so that they can get them off the scheme.

I am confused because to meet access to NDIS you need to show that you have already attempted recovery and will need support on an ongoing basis. If NDIS remove their support then I am left with no support and back at square 1 again. 

I feel like this is just another way to invalidate people with mental health conditions. I feel like they think I choose this. I’m so angry and scared.

[Owlunar]

Of course you are scared @Little_Leopard - I understand that - it is a change you feel you can't meet the demands that may be made of you - and that's threatening.

Still - it hasn't happened to you yet and there is probably time to sort things out with your caseworker if you have one. I don't know much at all about the NDIS - I do know it's over-loaded and I agree - it's really tough of people with mental health issues - after all - no one can see your disability - it's real though - and I believe you need the assistance.

Actually - the issues are different - I have been through it with getting support at home with My Aged Care - people are aging in faster than they are dying out and it's stretched to the limit - as for getting support workers outside the system - they don't have the staff - so really - although my situation is different it is not sufficient.

It seems a shambles to me - I am sorting through it all - still - what can you do?

Well - start with the agency you are with atm - and speak to other people there - the accounts department is one port of call - and any roster staff.

Also - you could ring NDIS directly and ask them direct questions - which is how I have worked through it - also - using Lifeline as a sounding board - this has been very useful - even though helpful people may not give you the answers you seek you can hear your own voice - and you will learn something - maybe a next port of call in your investigations.

Your feelings though - I do understand - it is scary that the over-worked system is picking on people with mental health issues to be in a recovery system and somehow prove it hasn't worked, doesn't work or is unlikely to work. I don't know enough about your situation. Still - I hear your concerns and wish I could help more.

Sending my best thoughts - and please keep in touch - other people with more experience of the NDIS than I do may have more or better ideas

All the best

Owlunar

[CrazyChick]

Hi @Little_Leopard,

Over the past few years there seems to be frequent news articles about cutting back on NDIS spending - including independant assessments and kicking people off NDIS. Most are unfounded fear-mongering with the tiny bits of truth hard to find.

Bill Shorten has made it clear recently that there isn't planned to be changes to who is eligible to access the NDIS, apart from possibly some potential future early childhood participants with learning delays rather than long-term disabilities who maybe supported by other services. The main changes proposed are increasing lengths of plans, bulk-buying assistive technology, and cracking down on overcharging and other rorting.

It is hard to worry about future changes that could potentially make a huge difference to the lives of people with disabilities, but unless these changes actually start to happen, then it could just be all talk.

[Little_Leopard]

Hey @CrazyChick. yes I totally agree with you about the click bait fear mongering article. However this weekend they had an NDIS conference of sorts and one of the things they spoke about was a “recovery” approach for people with Psychosocial disabilities and a focus on employment for people with psychosocial disabilities. They are saying they want to move psychosocial folk off the scheme to ensure its sustainability. 
I would post a link but I do t think the forums allow it.

Usually I would not blink but when they start talking  about structural changes of the NDIS at conferences I start to sit up and listen. Also the ABC radio host talked to Bill Shorten and when he brought it up Bill shorten did not argue or deny it. That’s what’s got me thinking this is happening.

Im a bit baffled though because you must meet permanence  and impairment criteria to even get access. NDIS is a lifetime support so when I hear they want to “recover” participants I feels like I’m dealing with another Centrelink or Employment provider who just want to harass non stop. That’s my worst nightmare.

You are right, it might just be talk. We will have to wait and see. 

[Little_Leopard]

Hey @Owlunar @thank you for your kind words of support.

My biggest fear is being treated the same way Centrelink treat people with psychological conditions. I don’t want NDIS to be another Centrelink. They are so horrible and I just can’t deal with that situation happening again.

[NatureLover]

So sorry to hear this, @Little_Leopard  😞

You must be feeling terrified 🫂

[Little_Leopard]

@NatureLover I am. I remember the way Centrelink and employment providers use to treat me. I dont want the NDIS to become that.

[CrazyChick]

Hi @Little_Leopard,

It is generally ok to post links - as long as they meet the community guidelines of remaining respectful, safe, and anonymous. Usually ok if the purpose is to share reputable information, but not if it is promoting a commercial organisation or would otherwise breach SANE Community guidelines SANE forums community guidelines

I would be interested in knowing what is being discussed at the NDIS conference. Some people think that "recovery" from mental illness means that people would be cured of their disability and no longer need assistance - hence the concept of people recovering and being moved off NDIS. But most definitions of recovery for psychosocial disabilities talk of living best life with the appropriate supports. I wonder what meaning of recovery approach NDIS use?

This is one that I have seen on Health Direct and many other places.

----What is the ‘recovery approach’ to mental health?

The ‘recovery approach’ to mental illness is about helping you take control of your own life. You decide what is important for you and what you would like your life to look like, not just in terms of mental illness symptoms, but holistically.

When you take the recovery approach, you work as a team with your doctor and other health professionals to work out how to achieve your goals and how to manage your mental health. You are at the centre of your care, and it will be personal and unique to you. ----

For some people employment may be one of their goals that they may need extra support to achieve. I don't think people should be pushed into employment if that isn't the right pathway for them in their recovery, but would be happy if NDIS provided extra support for those who would like this support.

I agree it might just be a wait and see - hoping they will get it right. Definitely we don't want another system like Centrelink or Employment providers that just harass and penalise, while rarely offering any tangible support. I remain hopeful as the alternative is too painful to even consider.

[Little_Leopard]

Hey @CrazyChick Here is the link if you are interested . The one from the ABC has a radio voice conversation and they talk about this whole recovery thing and getting people with psychosocial disability into work so they can move them off the scheme. Bill shorten never disagreed with the ABC host which is what worried me. I wonder if this is how they intend to meet their %8 target.

I really like your quoted interpretation of recovery. That is definitely how I like to view it. Though I don’t like the word “recovery” as I fee as it can be used or interpreted in a way to pressure and push people to do more than they are capable.

you are absolutely right. We must wait and see. Maybe there are some people who can receive support from the NDIS and get to the point of independence and maybe that’s who they are targeting. But their wording and the way they are specifically talking about people with psychosocial disability is making me un easy. Because should this not be true for all NDIS participants ? Not just those with Psychosocial disabilities? 

anyway here are the articles:

https://www.abc.net.au/sydney/programs/breakfast/bill-shorten-will-address-a-major-ndis-conferenec-i...

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/editorials/take-ndis-back-to-first-principles/news-story...

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/ndis-review-examining-outcomes-approach-to-funding/news-stor...

[chibam]

---

@CrazyChick wrote:

----What is the ‘recovery approach’ to mental health?

The ‘recovery approach’ to mental illness is about helping you take control of your own life. You decide what is important for you and what you would like your life to look like, not just in terms of mental illness symptoms, but holistically.

When you take the recovery approach, you work as a team with your doctor and other health professionals to work out how to achieve your goals and how to manage your mental health. You are at the centre of your care, and it will be personal and unique to you. ----

For some people employment may be one of their goals that they may need extra support to achieve. I don't think people should be pushed into employment if that isn't the right pathway for them in their recovery, but would be happy if NDIS provided extra support for those who would like this support.

---

Very true, @CrazyChick , and one of the reasons why I would welcome some frank and productive discussion about improving NDIS and mental health system's track records for giving people jobs.

I'm not on the NDIS, and I don't know if I'd even be elligable, but if I were on there, marriage, home, and employment would be the end goals I would want the treatment to get me to (in order). If the system is unable to provide those things, there'd be no point in me signing up for it in the first place. So if the NDIS is failing to get good jobs for people who have applied to it specifically for the purpose of getting a job, it is most definitely broken and in dire need of repair. I know this was a major failing of the mental health system when I was a patient of it, and as far as I know, nothing has gotten any better in that regard.

The one thing that disturbed me about that Shorten interview was the constant mention to giving NDIS therapists "more training", as a solution to the system's failings. 'Training' - that's their solution to everything, isn't it? Surely what the NDIS therapists need is either more helpful contacts within the workforce, or a greater willingness to actually help their patients.