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Re: Looking for advice

ahh ... fracture mechanics sounds interesting and unusual.  I will look it up later.  Did a bit of earth science in another life.

@P12 

 

I am probably a lot older than you, but am struck by many similarities in personality we share.  It may have something to do with some aspects of our parental experience.  Defences, resilience and strengths we developed.  Bottom line eben most professionals have no idea how to handle close relationships with people in serious mental distress.

 

The level of personal analysis about my interactions I have tried, has been serious, but in the end I had to learn to laugh.

WIll look at your new thread.

Apple

Re: Looking for advice

It is clear to me that independence, rather than interdependence, is the highest aspiration for humans, but there can be little doubt that humans seek empathy. For if they are not directly seeking connection with another human, it is most impossible to escape it.

 

I discovered this painfully in one event two and a half years ago, working on a project where I found my interests, motivations, and talents were in conflict with those of my colleagues. They appeared to be motivated by profit, status, and affiliation, rather than performing a good job in the technical sense of the word. Although I judged this to be wholly a economic problem, one that could easily be solved by the action of society and was only unsolvable because society had decided it didn’t want to solve the problem, and in some situations, differences of opinion like this might be respected, this project was different. I found my colleagues overtly criticised and attacked me because I was an outsider. On one occasion, one told me there was something wrong with me. He called me by phone and told me my communication style was unacceptable. On another occasion when I was explaining my reasoning, he exclaimed it was incorrect, when it was clear to me that it was in fact correct. On another occasion, a second told me my performance was poor, when I had done everything and more asked of me.

 

Since I did not and do not know to this day what action I performed to justify this treatment, I am traumatised by these events. Afterwards, I returned home and walked aimlessly around my local area, wanting to cry to relieve my stress but unable to do so. I slept little that night because my mind was too stressed to sleep. The following day I continued walking around aimlessly, in a state of fear, shock, and nasuea. I considered leaving my job because it was not worth the distress I was feeling. However, while sadly walking around a park at lunch, I heard and listened to a singer. It gave me enough motivation to return to my work and continue it as best as possible.

 

Realising that I was alone, and wanting others to treat me differently, I tried to ask the two individuals whether I could speak with them but my requests were rejected. Mathematicians name a technique the method of exhaustion, wherein to find a solution to an equation every possible solution is tested by trial and error and eventually the true solution will be found. This is really the only technique I know how to use in interpersonal communication. I persist in my attempt to motivate others to act towards me in more agreeable ways by trying to understand the other person by asking questions and speaking my observations. But the progress was too slow to have effect.

 

I turned towards being a duty ethicist. I resorted to fulfilling my duties as a citizen by devising a model of how society would have me act and acting like it though it was contrary to myself and ineffectual. I was concerned about the rise of proletarians against me, not in an actual public sense, but in a political sense to the extent that the concept is an integral part of the human condition that pervades all human action. I acted as society would have me act, not because it was what I believed or an integral action, but because it was supposed of me by my citizenship of the social contract that can only be escaped intellectually. It is what the philosopher would have us do; rightly or wrongly, the society has exhausted the physical resources of the land and its crave for physical satisfaction is eluded. It must turn to the last frontier, the human imagination.

 

When it became apparent that my attempts at motivating others to act towards me in a more compassionate manner would be unsuccessful, and that my role as a duty ethicist was unsustainable because the progress I would make would be too slow, I sought other means for belongingness. I found a little solace in an imaginary companion, whom I dreamt up and kept in my mind while I was asleep, away from the tortures of the external world. The person with whom I would like to associate, and do in my dream existence, having the interests and values I have and hewn from affirmation techniques to find them in the world around me; prospecting the world, gleefully collecting their small features when I encounter them, ignoring all contrary perceptions and cognitions.

 

In the time since the events I have described, I have reflected on an experience that occurred to me. On the day after my trip was cancelled and I was told I would be working on the task indefinitely, I travelled two hours from my house to a popular tourist site where, trying not to cry, I stood at a lookout over the blank, white landscape in front of me, unable to witness the deep gullies and cliffs at which every tourist would marvel. In this moment I experienced my connection with God, realising I was truly alone in society, outcast, without a follower except those I could conceive myself amongst my effort to justify a strange reality that others had burdened on society. I fell short of God, but succeeded in myself. I found Christ in me, when I had been looking unsuccessfully in the world.

 

Those who champion sustainability view the world as a tripartite: the environment, society, and an economy, as concentric domains. Unsustainability exists when the demands of an economy are wholly supplied by the resources of a society, the demands of a society wholly supplied by the resources of the environment. When I found society unable to supply, I sought the environment's resources, and when the environment unable to supply, I was delivered from my suffering by an external source. 

 

By suffering against nature, I made my mark on the land by exerting courage, and finding a friend, though they are imaginary and will not occur during my lifetime. By exerting my courage towards the land I have experienced a small change in its nature. I have worked the land, a flat featureless desert in my mind, but in reality a harsh place filled with mountains, vegetation, drought, and unforgiving terrain. I have been delivered. For everyone in a dire condition, is there not someone looking down – friend, family, God, or in my case oneself, who would not expect disappointment.

Re: Looking for advice

Two months ago I met a new clinical psychologist for the first time but sadly I don't think I am suitable for them.

 

I felt most sad when I was asked whether I like myself best I couldn't answer the question. I instead said I felt life was meaningless because I was apparently unable to achieve my goals because of obstacles that I knew not how to overcome. 

 

In reflection I think I do not like myself. If I liked myself I would want to befriend myself and the type of people I would like to befriend share my values and interests but find my valuable. I'm not sure how I can find myself valuable to myself unless I somehow have two personalities. Is this what is expected?

 

I am apparently a failure because I have no friends and cannot even determine befriend myself. Apparently the theory of evolution apparently says those who are outsiders in society will die off and are useless to the world.

 

Re: Looking for advice

Hi @P12 ,

 

There are so many clinical psychologists out there. Although this one may not be a good match, perhaps it’s good to keep seeking? No two psychologists treat the same way I guess.

 

As for loving yourself best, I’m not sure I was able to do this for a long time. What does it mean to like/love yourself anyway? Does it mean you protect yourself? Does it mean you are kind to yourself? What does it mean to you?

 

I used to hate myself and have similar thoughts as you - I wouldn’t even dare befriend myself. I couldn’t stand my own company! Also, I grew up being told that loving yourself means you are very selfish. Through therapy, I learnt that to me, loving myself means being assertive, setting boundaries, etc. I can’t say I “indulge” myself by any means. But now, at least I don’t detest my own company 🙂

 

Im very interested to hear your thoughts @P12 .

 

tyme

Re: Looking for advice

Hi @tyme.

 

I think liking yourself means you consider yourself a benefit to the world.The only friend I have made in the past fourteen years is the natural world. I like it because it is friendly to me, therefore I find it valuable. But I have difficulty determining what value I provide to the natural world. I advocate with all my effort for the expression of my beliefs and the protection of the natural world because I would not like to see my friend hurt, but usually my efforts are overcome by the actions of other people who oppose them.

Re: Looking for advice

How does one establish empathy with another person?

 

I apparently was born without empathy to other people. When I watch my childhood videos I am an outsider.

 

The only way I have discovered to gain a skill is to read theory and practice it. The two books I have read and applied in the past two years, "People Skills" by Robert Bolton and "A Fearless Heart" by Thupten Jinpa, appear to have different strategies.

 

The first appears to advocate that compassion is caused by empathy, which is caused by considered communication, which comprises expression and reflection of one's and another's senses, feelings, thoughts, and needs, but never judging values. Act towards other how you would like them to act towards you.

 

The second appears to advocate that empathy is caused by affirmation, which is caused by prayer, which is caused by faith. If you believe something to be true, you will find evidence that it is true.

 

I have practised both of these techniques. However, I find I am unable to establish empathy with myself, let alone another person. When I act as I would like others to act towards me I find people move away from me, presumably because I naturally don't want to establish empathy with another person. When I have prayed, I have found that progress is so incredibly slow that tangible outcomes will not occur during my life time.

 

How does one resolve this dilemma?

Re: Looking for advice

I read an article recommending that one can develop compassion by forming an image in their mind of what they would like to achieve and using affirmation to visualise it in their life.

 

My image is of me walking through the natural world with no other humans except for one who is my friend. I observe the natural world, hypothesise about its behaviour, experiment, and write my observations.

 

Although this strategy hasn't helped me make an actual friend (unless you consider imaginary friends) I am hopeful it may help me achieve some satisfaction.

Re: Looking for advice

When someone experiences psychological distress it is a shock because they cannot predict it. It is as though there exist two parts of the brain. The conscious part able to sense distress but poor at reasoning and intuition. The subconscious part able to predict distress but poor at communication.

 

There exist two types of people. Most people function normally. They know there identity and reach self-actualisation by directing others using deductive reasoning. A minority of people are dysfunctional. They spend their time using inductive reasoning trying to understand the suppression of others on them, unable to achoeve their goals. These are outsiders in the world who can predict natural events but cannot communicate with others to achieve a fulfilling life. How sad at the world's function.

Re: Looking for advice

I started this thread more than four years ago but I sadly reflect that I am still troubled by my concerns.

 

I feel like I've made a huge effort to make friends, but I remain lonely. It hurts. The prevailing suggestion is to join activities in my interest area and talk to the people I meet. I have been doing this for more than a decade. At what point will it work? I don't understand why people see me as unpopular, strange, or dangerous and therefore avoid me. I don't understand why there aren't people in the world like me. What is the reason why my brain wants connection but cannot obtain it?

 

I feel like I am continually excluded by society. Mostly society doesn't overtly criticise me but its indirect criticism and exclusion over a long period makes me sad.

 

I am confused by mental health and illness treatment. Theoretically I can continue to visit practitioners until I receive contentmet, but probabilistically my life will be over before that occurs.

Re: Looking for advice

@P12 
Hello! I am deshift, and I'm piqued by your post. I only recently joined the forum.

Your previous post alludes to something doctors and researchers are calling Brain State Dependancy.

I also don't see the point in group activities, unless someone such that I clicked with was also randomly present the same day that I went along. The notion of going to things that interest you is fair enough, but I don't have a lot of interest in the services provided, and only go there to meet people. I haven't given it a consistent mind stabbingly good go yet, as it is expensive to leave the house, and tedious to engage in whatever it is is being facilitated for participants. I am incredibly more likely to enjoy my own activities within the home with a support worker than I have built rapport with.

I have started my own thread about my life and current musings over at Day Dreamer; Night Wanderer  check it out, maybe we will get along?

😁
deshift

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