Lived Experience Forum

[bipolarbunny]

This is a difficult subject for me to post about, partly because I am not well informed on the subject, but mostly I guess cause it is something that has dogged me my whole life and I'm confused about where I fit in or where to go for answers.

I was born a woman and I identify with my sex as female and I am sexually attracted to men so consider myself straight. The problem is for a great majority of my life I have not felt feminine. I have always been a huge tomboy to the point where I feel more comfortable in a masculine role, mixing with men and being involved in masculine hobbies. I feel completely like a fish out of water when expected to act like a women. I always thought that was because my mother couldn't be bothered taking an interest in helping me develop into a woman, but I have had plenty of female friends over the years but still being feminine even with their tutelage has felt completely foreign to me. I even remember saying to my therapist a few times in session that when people refer to me as a lady or woman, I look around to see who they are referring too because I certainly don't feel like one. 

In saying that however there are times that I do feel female, and from a sexual point of view I do not feel like a man. So I guess it's not my sexuality I'm questioning but it's my gender identity. I really don't know if I am a women who is still a tomboy that just prefers to interact with men and enjoys manly things or I am in fact non-binary or gender fluid.

I grew up in a toxic narcissistic homophobic bigoted family and was told who I was, how I should act, who I should be, how I should think, to be seen and not heard, but I've always been mistaken for a boy and somehow even though not being recognised as female upset me when I was young, deep down I found safety and strength identifying with my masculine side. 

I guess I am questioning all this now because I am finally finding my voice and breaking out of the toxic net of my family and discovering who I am. I've done a bit of reading about non-binary & gender fluidity but I am truly lost in understanding where I fit. I don't feel completely like a woman and I don't feel completely like a man, so who the hell am I?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated xx

BB 🐰💙

@Former-Member @Anastasia @Shaz51 

[Anastasia]

Have to ponder this in order to give you a worthy response @bipolarbunny 💕

My instant reaction is you're YOU...

special, unique, kind, wise, caring and does it matter?

Obviously it does or you wouldn't be brave to ask so let me think and come back to you sweets x

[Former-Member]

I can't really comment on what it's like to be formally transgender, but I have experienced gender questioning myself.

This is a post talking about my own thoughts around this issue.

To give you a quick example, though, I remember watching this podcast episode on break-ups. I enjoyed it, so I e-mailed the creator, asking them if they could make a video on dating for the VERY first time. I told her, in the contact form, that I was a twenty-five year old man.

She said "I'm sorry, I only do videos for middle-aged women." She linked me to someone else, who specialises in giving advice to guys. The last episode SHE made was called "the art of charm." 

It made me cringe, because I don't know what assumptions either of them were making about who I am, because of my gender.

I think that the labels you see, while helpful to a lot of people, are really confusing to other people and at some point, you have to try to accept that gender is complicated for everyone.

As above, though, so long as you identify what you need (for example, ways to identify with your masculine self, or ways to feel more comfortable about it), then it's OK where you sit on the spectrum. That's not to say it's not important, but just don't feel ashamed for exploring it.

It IS a spectrum after all.

All the best 🐰.

[SJT63]

@bipolarbunny 

I believe we are all a bit gender fluid tbh and from my perspective gender has always been irrelevant.

Personally, I have always identified as female. I have been at times attracted to other females... I fall in love with personalities and gender doesn't really come into it... I know there's a term of that but I can't remember off the top of my head. My long term relationships have always been with men.

I am a woman but have never been a girly girl. I don't wear makeup unless I absolutely have to, I never do my nails and wear my hair very short and uncoloured. I never wear heels even though I'm only 4'10... too uncomfortable. I will "frock up" to go to the races because it adds to the atmosphere. I wear dresses to work most of the time because I feel more physically comfortable with my body shape in them than I do in pants. 

I remodelled my own kitchen while PND had me too anxious to leave the house. I can do plumbing and tiling like a pro (60yo body not withstanding these days). I built a house from scratch alongside my late partner. I also sew, make hats, knit, crochet and love to bake. I grew up knowing how to fish, catch & skin a rabbit, ride a horse, prepare a chook for the table; skills I learnt from dad while mum taught me to sew. No one taught me to cook, she was hopeless and they were of a generation where the man just didn't.

I work with men and have always been much more comfortable with the casual cammeraderie offered in that environment than the complexities and nuanced relationships working with women. If a bloke tells you he's fine; well that's exactly what he means.

I think if you were struggling with gender identity you would be clear in your mind about it. I think you have been made to feel uncomfortable because you don't fit the mold. Neither should you. The tag line to the intro on my website says "I am not a fan of labels. I am a fan of inclusion, acceptance and unconditional love."

I am of the opinion, thanks to the hard yards done by our queer community, that stereotypes will become less and less valid as we move forward.

So back to the original question. I ask you what is "feeling feminine"? I don't know whether I do either because I have no idea myself what "femine" is supposed to feel like. Fragile? Vulnerable? Dependant? Indecisive? Vain? FFS can we drag ourselves out of the 19th century for a second... ask yourself "do I feel like a person?" and if the answer is yes... 

I think that's what matters.

xoxoxox

[bipolarbunny]

@Anastasia @Former-Member @SJT63 

Thank you so much for the replies, definitely some great points and given me much to think about. 

@Former-Member I agree about gender being complicated for everyone. And like you say whilst being labeled is helpful for some people it is entirely unhelpful for others. I think you make a good point in that it's really important in how you self identify and where you feel comfortable regardless of where you sit on the spectrum. 

@SJT63 Yes I'm definitely not a girly girl at all either. I have to be dragged kicking and screaming into a dress and makeup, wearing dresses makes me feel very uncomfortable and very vulnerable, which I guess reiterates my earlier point that embracing my masculine side is a safety zone and place of strength for me. 
I also agree that if I were truly struggling with gender I would be clearer about it in my mind. I guess because I am older, 52, only now coming to learn about gender assignment, gender fluidity and non-binary that it has me questioning things. 
I absolutely love the strength of our queer community. I have had many gay friends over the years and the confidence, independence and strength they have in knowing who they truly are and embracing their truth is something I have always greatly admired. I long for the day when inclusion and acceptance is the norm for every single one of us. 

@Anastasia You are so right my friend. I am uniquely me. And maybe that's what I should be embracing, all the facets that make me who I am and not trying to pigeon hole myself into labels that may or may not fit. Definitely a lot to think about. 

Have a great day all, thank you again, big hugs xx

BB 🐰💙

[saltandpepper]

@bipolarbunny No advice really sorry but just wanted to say that it's ok that you don't feel "feminine". You know who you are and what you're comfortable with, that's a good thing. I think it's also ok and good that you feel like exploring that confusion further. Perhaps being raised in that toxic environment forced you to squash dowm that self exploration and you're now feeling safe to look at it all?

I don't think people need to be all or nothing. Think it's fine if you're somewhere in the middle, and I'm certain you're not the only one too @bipolarbunny was actually having a very drunken conversation with a mate the other night re how much of who we are is society's expectations vs who we actually are. It's something I think about too tbh @bipolarbunny but I also don't know how much of it is me vs trauma induced. My mate actually admitted that he and his partner both find the same sex attractive. As in man/man woman/woman. I think it's fine. People should be with who they want. I don't know if I believe anymore that you're either one or the other, straight or gay. I wonder if there wasn't this social construct around it all if people would be a lot more fluid with their sexuality.

[Zoe7]

Hey @bipolarbunny My feelings on this are a little different - I don't like the distinction between men and women - the 'usual'definitions of each nor the attributes we often attribute to each. In my opinion it does not matter what we were born as, what matters is that we enjoy what we do. Society has defined man/woman roles for centuries but we do not need (nor should we) conform to those roles nor the stereotypes they produce. What you feel is what you feel and what you like to do it what you like to do - that should never be defined by gender nor should it be defined by societal/family/individual expectations. There is no doubt still a gender imbalance in society - and expectations associated with that - but until ALL people are regarded as equal in all areas there will always be those imbalances. It is up to us as individuals to stand up and say 'this is who I am' to begin breaking down some of those walls/barriers/embedded expectations - be You hon - because that is in the end all we can be - and that is enough. There is no need, in my opinion, to attribute a label to that - we can be whoever we want, do whatever we want and do not need to label that as anything other than this is ME 

[bipolarbunny]

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@saltandpepper wrote:

@bipolarbunny No advice really sorry but just wanted to say that it's ok that you don't feel "feminine". You know who you are and what you're comfortable with, that's a good thing. I think it's also ok and good that you feel like exploring that confusion further. Perhaps being raised in that toxic environment forced you to squash dowm that self exploration and you're now feeling safe to look at it all?

I don't think people need to be all or nothing. Think it's fine if you're somewhere in the middle, and I'm certain you're not the only one too @bipolarbunny was actually having a very drunken conversation with a mate the other night re how much of who we are is society's expectations vs who we actually are. It's something I think about too tbh @bipolarbunny but I also don't know how much of it is me vs trauma induced.

---

Yes! @saltandpepper thank you, I think you hit the nail on the head!

Being raised in a toxic environment definitely distorted my sense of self because I always felt I had to remain hidden because my emotional, psychological and psychosocial needs were never important and never met. I actually asked my therapist one day, I often wonder if me taking on boyish characteristics  as a very young child was because I saw the love lavished on my six older brothers that I thought in order to receive love in my family that's who I had to be. It didn't matter, I was still the black sheep and still the scapegoat and still emotionally and psychologically neglected and abused. Bullied by my brothers, cause I wasn't one of them and shunned by my narcissistic mother because I wasn't a girl either or ever good enough for her. As I grew up I tried so hard, but just could not identify with other girls, sure I had girl friends, but I just always felt more comfortable hiding my true self and hanging out with the boys. To be honest I had no idea who my true self was and I guess that is what I am still struggling with all these years later as I come to deal with all the trauma of the past.

BB 🐰💙

[Gwynn]

Speaking for myself, gender stereotypes are so narrow and uncomfortable that it's hardly a surprise you feel somewhere betwixt or other. Once, years ago, I had the opportunity to teach string-and-nail art to a group of young girls. The youngest was reluctant and said that playing with hammers was for boys. I quickly reassured her (in what I still think was a stroke of genius) that we weren't merely playing with hammers, we were instead *using* them.

[bipolarbunny]

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@Zoe7 wrote:

Hey @bipolarbunny My feelings on this are a little different - I don't like the distinction between men and women - the 'usual'definitions of each nor the attributes we often attribute to each. In my opinion it does not matter what we were born as, what matters is that we enjoy what we do. Society has defined man/woman roles for centuries but we do not need (nor should we) conform to those roles nor the stereotypes they produce. What you feel is what you feel and what you like to do it what you like to do - that should never be defined by gender nor should it be defined by societal/family/individual expectations. There is no doubt still a gender imbalance in society - and expectations associated with that - but until ALL people are regarded as equal in all areas there will always be those imbalances. It is up to us as individuals to stand up and say 'this is who I am' to begin breaking down some of those walls/barriers/embedded expectations - be You hon - because that is in the end all we can be - and that is enough. There is no need, in my opinion, to attribute a label to that - we can be whoever we want, do whatever we want and do not need to label that as anything other than this is ME 

---

@Zoe7 Thank you my friend, you are so right. I think after my breakdown and finding out I had MI I got really hung up on labels. I only saw myself as the label of "mentally ill" and it crushed me and I guess in a weird way I've been looking for a place or "label" to fit into. I'm still thinking like society wants me to think, pigeon holed into what they deem reasonable and acceptable instead of saying, "F**k your labels and your ideas", I am who I am and that is who I need to embrace. That is where I struggle, being confident in who I am, it probably sounds weird, but in someways I still feel like I need permission to be who I am. And I am acutely aware that that mindset is a direct product of my past trauma. Maybe that's where the work needs to start. I like to say I am unapologetically ME, but in truth I still have my doubts as to how much ME I truly am and how much ME is still trying desperately to be accepted by a list of societies rules that in perfect world would just not exist. I dunno if that makes sense. I think my bipolar is starting to ramble. 

BB 🐰💙