Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Holly]

I strongly believe my mother has bipolar disorder or a form Mania and refuses to believe that there is anything wrong. She has had depression over the years, and only once got help and stayed at a hospital to be assessed and seek professional help. Unfortunately she likes to put all the blame onto my father and since her stay at hospital 6 years ago says that he should have been there not her. Over the last 20 years we have all noticed her go through phases where she becomes verbally abusive when she drinks alcohol. She will yell at my father for hours at all times of the night in a drunken rage and accuse him of being horrible to her and say that he is verbally abusive to her. She will never have any scenarios to point out of him being this way toward to her she just rants and raves and will then bring my sister and I into it by saying we are horrible to her too. There have been many senarios over the years of her drunken rages and even running to neighbours houses to say she is scared of my father and making things up to have him look bad. My father has never and would never be violent toward her or anyone. He has a very gentle nature, yet my mother says he is the one that is always yelling, however it is always her that is yelling. Lately she has been telling people that he is having an affair, she has no reason or proof to think this, however she has been having extreme paranoia the last few years. Aside from her belief of my father having an affair, she also believes people are coming to their house and stealing things. I have lost count of the amount of items she has claimed have gone missing but have all been found. In recent weeks she has written her own Eulogy, and said to family friends that she doesn't want to live past 70 and said to these friends they should all go together.
She has had dramatic spending of money that was given to her from her father when he died two years ago. Spending it on plastic surgery and holidays that her and dad couldn't usually afford. Other family friends have noticed and commented on this too.
She rang my husband recently during a week working day and spoke to him for over an hour, which is unusual for her to do so. My husband said she sounded like she was "high", talking very fast and going off on multiple tangents, and it sounded out of character for her.
She will often mumble things under her breath and when questioned about it shakes her head and says "don't worry" like we are the stupid ones, sometimes she says, "forget it, I don't expect you to understand". We never seem to know what mood she will be in and worry about what we say as she will twist any comment or question we ask and randomly turn it into an argument, even if she has been laughing and smiling only moments before. She told a family friend that she thinks dad is scheming to get her psychiatric help behind her back and she doesn't need it, he does. This is obviously concerning as she needs helps and is in complete denial. My father doesn't know what to do as she turns everything onto him and says he is crazy and has issues. I am trying to find a way to get her to seek help as I don't know how much more my father can take this. He seems to be afraid of her and doesn't want to bring things to her attention regarding this as he doesn't want to cause another fight. I have told him we have to do something. Any advice on how we can get my mother to seek some form of help would be appreciated.

[pip]

Dear Holly. Your mum sounds like she could have narcissistic tendencies as well as alcohol issues. Unfortunately, there is very little you can do, short of getting a Dr to hospitalize her under a mental health scheme. To achieve this, you would have to get her to a Dr, or get her to agree to see a Dr. The Dr assesses her, then according to his findings he agrees to hospitalize her. This is 'mission impossible' country, but I would suggest you get together with dad and other family members and discuss some options. Perhaps, if there is a family Dr you know, who knows the situation, you could talk to him and ask him for help. There are all sorts of legal issues involved, not to mention medical ethics. Your first step is to ask the Dr, get some guidance from him. If your mum has bipolar, couple with severe alcohol abuse, you could get her hospitalized, but you will need a Dr's certificate.

[Mosaic]

Hi @Holly firstly welcome to the Forums! 🙂 So glad you have found us. 

Echoing what @pip said, it can be really challenging to get a person help when they do not acknowledge or perhaps don't even realise they need it. The only time a person can be involuntarily admitted to hospital for treatment is when they become at acute risk of harm to themselves or others. If the situation does escalate to this extent, you can contact the local hospital for advice or the psychiatric triage service in your local area. We can help you find the right number for your area, if you want to give us a call the SANE Help Centre on 1800 18 7263 (Monday - Friday between 9am - 5pm). 

In the meantime, the main thing you can do is continue to encourage her to reach out for more support within the community. You said your mum is very paranoid and her ideas are both difficult and frustrating for the family to comprehend. Do you feel like she genuinely believes these ideas and feels they are based on reality? Or is it more an issue of compulsive lying to elicit a reaction from others? It's important to make that distinction to understand what is happening for her. 

Sometimes it is easier to get someone to see the doctor about symptoms of depression, anxiety or stress, which typically go hand in hand with paranoia. Have you noticed any of these sorts of symptoms, such as crying, panic attacks, difficulty sleeping or changes in eating habits? Engaging more with the emotions associated with her paranoid thoughts - not the paranoid thoughts themselves - can be more productive in encouraging a visit to the doctor. 

Can I ask how did the get to the point of hospitalisation for depression 6 years ago? Did she go voluntarily and if so, I wonder were there any strategies that worked well with her last time? 

Look forward to hearing more of your story. 

[Holly]

Thanks Pip and Mosaic for your replies. Thanks for welcome! I am glad I found this too. Over the time since I initiated my conversation on here, I have also called the helpline and had a great conversation with a member of your team. I have also had a couple of conversations with close family friends who know her well. They are all concerned with her behavior and with things she has said on the phone over the last few months, especially the last couple of weeks as her "mania" and "paranoia" is getting worse. One friend said that she spoke to her a week ago on the phone and said she was so insistent that dad was having an affair even though she had no proof or evidence. She "thinks" he has a second mobile phone he is using and was apparently quite inconsolable over the phone about this affair, but when she saw this friend an hour later, she was genuinely happy and laughing as if the conversation they had had only an hour prior, never occurred. My mums friend said she couldn't believe such a dramatic change and this was when alarm bells really started ringing for her. In regards to your question - "Do you feel like she genuinely believes these ideas and feels they are based on reality?" With the stealing, she truly believes this, she never backs down on certain items and has even accused myself and my sister of stealing these things. The friends I have spoken to today have also told me she has told them she thinks my sister and I have stolen things. One of the friends I spoke to today is the daughter of a very close friend of hers who she has accusing of stealing these items too. She called the daughter and told her that she is worried about her mothers behaviour of kleptomania and has a long list of items she wants to send to her to see if she can find them the next time she visits her mother. Some of these items my mum claims that are stolen, are things she said her own mother (my grandmother) sent her before she passed. Dad says these items were never sent and he has never seen them in the house. However my mother talks about these things incessantly and says that this friend has stolen them. She also told her friends daughter that she thinks her mum wants to be her and is jealous of her, and my mum said she could understand why, as my mum said that she is in the best and happiest place of life. In all conversations with these family friends, they have expressed their concern about my mum by telling me she is going off on different tangents and constantly changing the topic and then five topics later randomly returns to a topic. They have described her as very "manic" in conversation and are finding her very hard to follow. One of these friends has noticed other people's reactions to my mothers flippant comments and these people openly rolling their eyes or raising their eyebrows at her. All of this, she either doesn't see or takes no notice of it. It appears she is telling more and more people that dad is having an affair and when they say they don't believe it, mum gets very angry at them and says, "well of course you would stand up for him". In regards to when she seeked help 6 years ago, she made the call herself to a hospital claiming she was having suicidal thoughts. They told her they would call her back in 10 mins and organise someone to come and see her. When they called back, arrangements had been made for her to go to hospital for treatment of depression. When she was in hospital they diagnosed her with bipolar disorder and upon discharge started her on Medications to stabilize her moods. She started to have panic attacks at home or when she went out to do the shopping, so she took herself off the medication without waiting for the medication levels to meet the appropriate levels in her system and she seemed to get lost to follow up. As far as I am aware (from what my dad has said), she takes a strong sleeping tablets each night to help her sleep (although she still doesn't sleep) and has medication for high blood pressure. When she was in hospital she repeatedly said she shouldn't be there as dad should, even though all the medical staff could see it was her that needed the help. I am not really sure how she managed to get discharged and can't remember the fine details. All I can remember and also know from her attitude now is that she thinks she is fine and dad is crazy and he needs help. I remember on two occasions her threatening to take her life when she was in an argument with dad. On both occasions she was in the kitchen and grabbed a kitchen took and said she would "do it". Dad calmed her down and she then continued to just yell at him. I feel I am going to have to make a trip up north to visit mum and try and discuss this paranoia about dads affair. I have read that post-menopausal women can have thyroid level issues that can mimic behaviour similar to mania so feel this may be a more gentle approach for now. I worry if I start talking about her erratic behaviour to her, she will straight away blame dad and say he is turning us against her and threaten to take her life as this is what has happened in the past. Also, like I mentioned earlier in this post she has told people she is in the best frame of mind and the happiest she has ever been, which indicates to me that she has no insight into her current behaviour. When I have spoken to her in the past she has eventually seen reason (after hours and sometimes days of yelling) and managed to see a psychologist in a couple of occasions. However, this time is much more extreme as she has lost some friends recently through her behaviour and her mania and extreme highs is worse than it has even been. Any thoughts on this would be helpful. I am starting to think after phonecalls with friends today that I need to take some action sooner rather than later.

[pip]

Holly, the situation sounds desperate. perhaps now would be a good time to discuss with your mum's Dr about her behaviour. Ask your dad to accompany you and see if you can tell the Dr what's going on. He can asses her and possibly arrange to hospitalize her. If she is hospitalized on Dr's authority, she would not be able to discharge herself and she may get the treatment she needs. While she can 'sign' herself in and out at will, she is not getting treated. If she can be 'kept', she will be assessed over a time and then can be monitored with AD's. If left, she could be a danger to herself and others because of the belief of your dad's supposed affair. Your mum needs help and the Dr is the only one who can start the ball rolling. Seeing a psych on odd occasions is not really wise until her delusions are being monitored. It's possible she has a form of dementia, but a Dr can determine this too.

[Holly]

Hi Pip,

Thanks for your reply.  A lot has happened since my last post.  My father and I are feeling desperate and right are at the point where it feels that there is nothing in the system to help us.  I have flown interstate to try and help dad and speak to mum in the hope that she will see reason and seek help.  Unfortunately, she is in a pure state of mania and there is nothing that anyone can say or do to make her see reason.  She says that there is nothing wrong and her "eyes are wide open for the first time" and she has "never been more sane in my life".  When I arrived the other day she was at the doctor speaking to him about my father as she is insistent that he is the problem.  I had already made an appointment to see their GP prior to flying up to see them, so was already going later that day.  When she saw me she expressed her excitement to see me, however, she was extremely tangential.  I helped her with the groceries at the supermarket and while there she started saying she has no more contact with her friend that she believes is stealing.  I asked her what has happened since we last spoke and she looked at me in horror, shook her head, and said, "we can't talk about this now, why do you do this to me!?"  There were several more conversations similar.  She would say something to start a conversation and when I asked her a very general question back, she would switch her mood saying, "don't speak to me like that, what is wrong with you!"  I am starting to worry that she may have some form of personality disorder or schizophrenia.  Back at home, she continued in this manner, making conversation and then muttering response to me under her breath, and then yelling at me when I said, "pardon" politely, as I couldn't hear her.  In the end a huge argument broke out, I told her I had multiple phone calls the past two weeks from family and friends worried about her not being herself and concerned about the "affair" she is telling everyone dad is having.  She denied that she has told anyone that dad is having an affair and called all these people liars.  She had been scammed the previous evening by a skincare company who charged her $2000 for what they claim is $5000 worth of skin care products.  She also claims that the guy was trying to walk her to the car and apparently was trying to give her $50,000 of products but she refused it.  She is having delusions of grandeur, and believes hat this company want her to be their poster girl and after the purchase of this skincare sent an email to a friend or hers who is on tv, and asked her when she is taking her to her directors and producers.  She wrote this email at 12.30am and it was very manic and all over the place.  Didn't make sense at all.  She says she is sleeping better than ever, however, she emailed another friend three nights ago saying she hasn't slept in years.  When I saw her GP, he asked me firstly what I thought was wrong with my mother and I said "some form of mania or bipolar disorder".  He said "absolutely, there is no doubt about it". He has been trying to see any form of behaviour in her during her visits, where she could indicate self-harm or aggression to others, but she is just "so high" he can't schedule her for that.  Scheduling her under "risk of reputation" he believes will be too difficult and with her behaviour at the moment isn't going to work due to the legalities surrounding it and having to involve a magistrate etc.  He had discussed with mum that day that as a plan of action to "help dad", he thinks she needs to also see someone, so she has agreed to see her psychiatrist that she had several years ago when she was hospitalised for depression, and suggested she stay there for a week as a "holiday from dad". And then dad has agreed to go in after her.  The psychiatrist has said he can't see her until Wednesday afternoon, however, we feel this is too late.  I have only mentioned on this forum a small amount of the things my mother has done the last few days.  Dad and I, and one her friends that is in regular contact with her, can't keep up with her.  Dad and I don't know how much more we can take.  I walked out on her yesterday morning as she had upset me so much and I just couldn't take it anymore.  I feel I have been her punching bag for the last 10 years.  She has always called me to complain about my sister and her husband, and my father.  I have tried on several occasions to tell her that she should talk to someone professional, but she seems to be under the belief that she should be able to talk to me, and if I can't be there, I am the worst daughter in the world.  

I called the SANE hotline again for some advice yesterday after I walked out on her, and felt a bit better after that.  But then my mother started writing obscure text messages to her friend again and I was contacted by another friend regarding some weird emails she has written.  All regarding paranoia of things being stolen and she has referenced times back 7 years ago.

After being told that her psychiatrist won't see her until Wednesday, (despite the GP calling multiple times and stressing the urgency), my dad and I are becoming desperate.  I called our local crisis team, and explained the situation.  They called my mother and spoke to her, she said she was "Very mad!" She said she is fine and doesn't have time for this nonsense, she has two beautiful grandchildren to live for and isn't a risk to herself, and is too busy this weekend for this nonsense as she has "trees being chopped down".  The woman from the mental health team called me back and said she seemed OK, her speech was fine and not slurred in any way, however a bit tangential.  She said based on that, there wasn't really anything she could do except write a report up and see what the rest of the team wants to do.  She said if we get really concerned we could call 000, but doesn't know if this would work either as her speech on the phone seems fine.  Unfortunately she is constantly flipping between pure mania and normality (although very briefly).  Dad asked me to come home last night as I was going to stay with a friend instead after how my mother had treated me in the morning.  He really needs me for his own sanity and a bit of "safety in numbers".  I know my mother has no idea what she is saying and doesn't truly mean it, but I am really struggling as she has been so verbally abusive towards me over the years.  Looking back I actually think she has had some form of mental illness or bipolar over the years and dad agrees and blames himself as he has tried to hide it and make excuses for her.  We really are desperate and don't know if we can wait until Wednesday.  She may not be a risk to herself, however she has flipped in the past and become a danger to herself. She is most definately a "risk to her reputation" as well as ours with what she is saying to other people.  I just don't know what to do other than call 000 and have her carted off in an ambulance which I worry would destroy our relationship.

[pip]

Holly. You are in quite an awkward position here. I feel, under the circumstances a Dr should be able to authorize hospitalization. Your mum definitely sounds delusional and could self harm as a way of blaming you and dad for what she would see as 'your fault, you drove her to hurt herself'. Unfortunately, talking by phone is never any indication. The person on the other end could put the phone down, put the 'speaker' on and the caller would never know. You said the Dr indicated your mum was 'high' can I ask how he meant that. Often being 'high' indicates drug use or alcohol abuse. If this is the case, your mum needs help urgently. Also when a patient sees a Dr, because it's only a 10 minute (or less) visit, the Dr can't always ascertain the problem. Your Dr seems reluctant to authorize anything in connection with helping your mum. You may have to 'bite the bullet' and call 000. I know you're worried about your future relationship with mum, but there's too much going on to really concern yourself with 'tomorrow'. Mum needs help now, your dad could sign consent seeing as mum is unable to due to her emotional state. Do you know if your dad has POA as far as mum is concerned. If he does, he legally can sign consent for her to be admitted under the mental health act. POA is there for people who are unable to make decisions either through stroke, mental health, dementia/alzheimers etc. See if your dad can 'pull rank' and get mum some help before she hurts herself or anyone else.

[Holly]

Thanks for the advice Pip, it is so helpful. When I refer to her as being 'high', I am referring to the high period that they experience in mania. She is just so happy and over confident and appearing to have these delusions of grandeur in that she is unstoppable and can do anything. We don't believe she is taking drugs, only the wine she gulps down like water every night. She is on an antidepressant that most definately shouldn't be taken with alcohol. I did receive a phonecall from the local mental health assessment team that reviewed the notes from the phonecall from yesterday. The lady I spoke to believes my mum is hypomanic and is happy to come to our house to speak with her and she is also accredited to admit her if needed. As mum seems to be stable so far, we don't want to cause any anxiety to her by having this meeting yet. As she has agreed to Wednesday to see this particular psychiatrist, we will watch her and see how her moods go in the meantime. If she flips again, (which I think will probably happen). I will call them back and get them to come to our house. I think my dad feels most comfortable with that too. I feel I need to think of both of them at the moment and weigh up the pros and cons of each thing. I feel better knowing that the mental health assessment team are there over the weekend and they are willing and aware of my mum's current state.

[pip]

Holly. From your description it does sound bipolar, but only a Dr or psych can really diagnose. Taking alcohol is out, as you've already said, but when you're dealing with someone as diverse in mood swings as your mum, sometimes it easier to leave them when they're 'liveable'. I am pleased you have assistance with your parents, knowing someone is there and willing to 'step in' makes it seem not so hopeless. Is anyone going with her to the psych, as going alone means she may well try to con the psych into believing everyone else is at fault. It will take time for the psych to assess her and if she does try to 'pull the wool' over, it could set treatment back. Perhaps if you or dad could give him/her a letter before he/she sees mum it will help to assess her too. Best of luck. Bipolar/schizophrenia patients often have delusions where they believe everyone is 'out to get them'. Your mum could be bipolar/schizo, I hope the psych can help.

[Holly]

Hi Pip. Thanks again for your post. Since then, mum has since been admitted to a hospital in the Adult Mental Health ward at a hospital near home. It got to the point where my father and I just couldn't cope with her moods and after a comment during an argument with dad on Saturday night that she "may not be around for the appointment on Wednesday" and on the advice of the psychiatrist she was meant to be seeing on Wednesday, I called the acute mental health assessment team who came out and scheduled her. She went with a lot of fighting and was seen by a psychiatrist at the hospital who thought it best to admit her and monitor her as she is unwell. She is in denial and thinks there is some thing wrong with dad and I am the worst daughter in the world. This has been by far the hardest thing my dad and I have done in our lives. Having to see her look at me with a mix of confusion, sadness and most of all extreme hatred is incredibly hard. Most of the nursing staff at the hospital have been great, reassuring us that this is normal and her paranoia and lack of insight into her illness is one of her biggest downfalls. They are assessing her for the third time since she was admitted and it will be determined if she will be discharged or stay another week and what medical care will commence. She has started to be nice to the ward staff and doctors so I am starting to worry she may come home, however, the nursing staff are quite sure that she will be there for another week due to her lack of insight. I have had to fly home today due to work commitments that can't be postponed, I do worry about dad being at home with her if she is discharged. He has really opened up to me the last few days about how she has really treated him the last 20 years and a lot of things have really started to make sense. My sister, has offered him a place to stay in their spare room if he needs to go elsewhere, so knowing he doesn't have to stay at home if she does come home is helpful. At this stage we are taking everything day by day, sometimes hour by hour. Hopefully after today we will know more and hopefully she will stay in hospital to get the health care she really needs.