Lived Experience Forum

[theaveragejoe]

I like to read quite a bit on all topics to do with Mental Disorders. 

One thing that really interests me, and I am not here going to take any sides but simply investigate the topic, is that many mental health professionals believe that medication for depression does not work.

An example, and there are many out there, is Mark Hyman, a Doctor and a writer, and he writes:

" Here is some depressing recent medical news: Antidepressants don't work. What is even more depressing is that the pharmaceutical industries ... have deliberately deceived us into believing that they do."

In 2009 to 2010 a large scale research was conducted in America where the researchers subpoenaed the US government to release all of the studies on antidepressants' effectiveness in its archives. (Linford and Harden, 2009). What was found was that there were many studies disputing the hypothesis that anti depressants are more effective than placebos. More interesting, research papers in favour of the positive effects of antidepressants were twelve times more likely to be published than studies reporting negative effects which were much greater in numbers.

Turner et. al (2008) looking at the study of Dr Irvan Kirsh, of Harvard University,  concluded that: "Publication' bias had inflated the common impression of the effectiveness of serotonin reuptake inhibitors by about a third overall; and for some medication, the figures were twice as high. Post Turner estimates of the effects of antidepressants have dropped to a level close to that of placebo (Liinford and Harden (2009). Dr Kirsh used the Freedom of Information Act to get access to the studies that did not show any effect in real scientific terms which made up the great majority of the research. America had some proof that antidepressants were not as effective as the manipulated papers had suggested. Most of the research in favour of antidepressants had been manipulated, or, in other words, corruption was at work to make money and to sell drugs.

In other words, the large scale research, still valid today, tells us that there is absolutely no concrete proof, in scientific terms, that antidepressants actually work on the brain, in any positive way, except that the placebo may be at work. Placebo is  the simple belief that the medication is helping when it is really not. In other words those with depression could be taking sugar pills without knowing it with a lablel "Antidepressants" and it could still work for some. 

As I said, I take no side, but it is a very interesting topic, I feel. MOre interesting is the subject of Placebo and how do we know when the medication is working or when it is the Placebo effect working? IN cases where the Placebo effect is at work, it is clear that it is really the mind healing itself under the belief that a certain substance, which is just sugar, is doing the work. If this is so how powerful is the Placebo and why and how does the mind heal itself? More allarmingly is the fact that many pharmaceutical corporations are moving away from making drugs for mental disorder and going into other less expensive areas such as diabetes, and so on.

[Sahara]

Great topic @theaveragejoe. 

I have taken a mountain of antidepressants in my time and I believe they did something, but it's hard to tell how much of my recovery I can attribute to them.

I don't take them anymore and I am very glad of it. They had a lot of side-effects and they were no substitute for counselling and improving my life circumstances. 

My beef with anti-d's is that people take them hoping they can just 'pop a pill' and feel a lot better. Depression is not like having pneumonia! It's not a disease you can stomp out with a few tablets and bed rest. It's more complex than that.

If anti-d's can take a patient to the point where they feel abit more relaxed about going to counselling and developing the courage to change their lives for the better, then I think they have a place. But the patient still has to take charge of their life and make some changes.

They have to find out what led them to becomming depressed in the first place. If they want to take a pill and then just forget all about it, then they will not make any progress and will most likely end up medicated forever.  

I believe that even those people who have a so-called 'perfect life' can end up depressed, because what they really have is someone's elses idea of what a perfect life should be. So they take a tablet and swallow all their discontent. 

What is promoted as being a 'perfect life' by society and by the mass media is actually living hell for some people. Should they be medicated to help them adjust or should they find a life they actually can be content with?

[theaveragejoe]

Generally speaking, medication can save lives sometimes but they are not a cure for everything and certainly not a cure in the long run.

For example, if a young woman has been traumatised after being sexually violeted or molested, medication can help but it will only cover up the trauma which will probably remain in the subcconscious to cause ongoing problems.

Therapy can help here more than medication can because therapy can get to the bottom where the problem lies and help the person into some sort of recovery through reasoning and negotiations.

Given that the majority of problems, as much research suggest, can often spring from traumatic experiences, and here we are talking largely about Post Traumatic Stress Disorders, then medication can do little to sort these problems, untill the problems are worked through with a therapist. We often need to revisit what happened to better understand why people can be so nasty and cruel, and why not all people are bad, there are still good people out there. This is reasoning. That is probably why therapy is so important.

Naturally, there are severe cases of mental disorder that do not respond to therapy and, unfortunately, these people rely heavily on medication. The problem is that in this way, medication is always on the increase as it tends to lose efficacy, at least from what I read. In addition, many people mix different medication which becomes a cocktail. Problem is that the interaction of these drugs is not always known. 

There are also people that self medicate with alcohol and drugs. This, however, often tends to aggravate the depression as these substances are often depressants in the long run.

[CherryBomb]

Great points @theaveragejoe and @Sahara. 

Medication is not one size fits all, and it does sometimes seem in our fast paced society, that a quick fix 'pop a pill' solution is sold as the way to go. 

This is why I think its important to go for a holistic approach. As you both have pointed out, medication really only really treats one aspect of a mental illness - the biological. But there's more to it than that. There's also the psychological and the social factors at play as well, which also impact on a person's mental illness. Therapies can help work through these issues.

The other complexitiy with medication is the divergences in symptoms. Two people can have the same diagnosis but have different symptoms. Medication treats some symptoms but not others. So it's hard to say that one particular medication with help people with a particular diagnosis. 

While medication can work, I think it's important to remember that mental illness is complicated, treating it purely with medication can reduce this complexity. 

[theaveragejoe]

Dear CherryBomb,

it is very kind of you to give such a valid reply. I totally agree with you and you have expressed it so well in so few words.  It is the Biopsychosocial model of health where Biology, the Environment and the Psychology or Psyche of the person must be considered as a synchronised combination to help a person appropriately.

For example, what is the use of giving medication to a woman that is constantly subject to domestic violence. Clearly she will need to move out of her place and separate from her partner before her depression or anxiety will get better. In other words, she needs to stop, above all, the violence inflicted on her by a violent partner.

In such case, the environment is the greatest problem. Once she moves away  she has  hope that medication will calm her down so that she can be good enough to go to some sort of therapy in the hope that her life will return to some normality.

I totally agree with you, CherryBomb, thank you again for your reply.

[BlueBay]

Hi @theaveragejoe

I remember when I was first diagnosed with depression and my GP gave me a script for AD.  I asked him how long will I have to take these for?  He replied 'oh only for about 6 months, and then you can come off them'.  What a joke!!!  Six years later and i am still on AD.  I left that GP and found another who then referred me to a psych for med review.

I still take an AD but I am not really sure if it is helping.  All I know is that many times I have stopped taking them because I just didn't want to take them anymore and my thoughts were becoming very suicidal and I was more not with it.  So after talking with my psych we decided that it was better for me to stay on them.  

I think taking a holistic approach like @CherryBomb suggested is a good idea.  In my therapy I am learning how to cope with negative thoughts; how to destress yourself when in a crisis.  It's not easy but I feel that I need to try anything that will help.  It's not a case of just taking a pill and you'll be right. If only it was that easy!!!

I also have accupuncture done fortnightly and I know this helps me because I can feel the benefit afterwards.  I feel so relaxed and more at ease with myself.  But I can't keep doing this forever as the cost is  not cheap.  So I think finding a balance of meds, different techniques of helping is the way to go. 

I don't want to be on meds forever, but like my pyysch once suggested - 'it's like having high blood pressure; or diabetes you needs your meds' and for some people they need to have AD to stablise their moods and behaviour.

Interesting thread @theaveragejoe

Thanks for sharing 🙂

[theaveragejoe]

Dear Sadgirl,

if medication works for you then that is great. Anything that works must be embraced when you have a mental disorder. 🙂